Re: Extraordinary Congress

von K. Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:22 am

Admin wrote:And hopefully Stefano De Francesco will never be involved in FISTF anymore because he'd better concentrate on Italy only.

With arguments like this (below), when writing about a national meeting of italian clubs (not about international subjects), I can only agree. FISTF doesn't need this attitude. It needs positive attitude from Italy, and there is a lot of it also there.

"Dopo mesi in cui per il mio ruolo istituzionale mi sono trovato a discutere con nullasapenti e anche menofacenti stranieri del futuro del nostro sport..."

Translation: "After months of having to discuss, because of my institutional role, the future of our sport with foreigners who know nothing and also do little..."

I'm sure the Council is also sorry that Stefano has wasted his time there... Why then do it, if it's so repulsive work.

It's a pity that people with this kind of attitude towards international discussion (and the people) can be in important roles in the FISTF. This is the most important thing that has to change. The attitude of the people in charge.

kechris Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:48 am

DEAR PIERRO MY COMMENTS IN RED.

pierocapponi wrote:I have made clear why Koutrumanos has to resign and therefore also Catania.

Now I would like to know, given that I represent a country and I have a vote, who I have to vote?

A Coppenolle? Great communication Fistf responsible for where he has done an extraordinary job? Ok, let's not forget that the growth in 7 years under his management has been very poor and in the end to only work (and a little Heinz). Vincent also lately is dedicated solely to offend and that is no position for a president.
PIERRO I WROTE ALL THESE THE LAST TWO YEARS BUT EVERYBODY DID THE WORST COMMENTS FOR ME.
to Jenus? Ok? what is your program? Because if we look at the numbers in Germany are not very positive.
IN THIS POINT YOU HAVEN'T RIGHT. JANUS IS A LOW PROFILE MAN BUT CLEVER. HE IS NOT RESPONSIBLE IF THE GERMANY HAS NOT MANY PLAYERS. THE LAST YEARS GERMANY CREATE ITS FUTURE WITH YOUNG PLAYERS.

What are the other canidadatos? What are the programs? Ideas? What happens to the promotion of the game? with marketing? And with the materials? and the rules of the game?
YOU CANN'T FIND CANDIDATES WHEN THE COUNCIL SPEND ITS TIME IF INDIA MONACO AND OTHER COUNTRIES ARE MEMBERS OF FISTF OR NOT.

Anyone can write 10 ideas on how to really promote the game? Anyone want to explain to people that we have to play with goals in the same dimension, with 80 inches high fields, not 50, you can not go in jeans on television, you can not insult the opposite because you are playing drunk, can not throw a goalie in the middle of a flag, it is better to change the shirt from one day to another because many seem to pigs? that the toilet has to be decent and maybe if we play on the public site closest to what would help them grow better?
SORRY PIERRO BUT I HAD WROTE NO 10 BUT 100 PROPOSALS FOR THE FUTURE. FOR THE BEERS IN HALLS FOR THE TOILETS. FOR THE BAD TABLES FOR THE ANCIENT RULES. IF YOU LOOK FOR AND ASK IN PAST YOU WILL FIND THE SAME PROPOSALS BY ME.

From this you have to talk here if you want to introduce you to a ELECTIONS.

Do not worry for the elections as we are ordering that he has a new congress, but still nobody has given me a single reason to convince me why I have to vote.
THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HELP TABLE SOCCER BUT THEY DIDN'T DECIDE YET BECAUSE THE SITUATION IS SICK.
Un saludo.

Piero

Janus_Gersie Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:28 am

von K. wrote:"Dopo mesi in cui per il mio ruolo istituzionale mi sono trovato a discutere con nullasapenti e anche menofacenti stranieri del futuro del nostro sport..."

Translation: "After months of having to discuss, because of my institutional role, the future of our sport with foreigners who know nothing and also do little..."

Sometimes it's getting ridculous reading phrases like this. Maybe someone should tell the italians it was Stefano who destroyed within six months the sports department of FISTF by doing "a little". But maybe it was his vision of "the future of our sport".

Janus_Gersie Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:36 am

pierocapponi wrote:to Jenus? Ok? what is your program? Because if we look at the numbers in Germany are not very positive.

I think you are talking about me. Please take the time to write my name correctly. Thank you.

I don't have a program because I will never ever be candidate for the FISTF board/president. So I don't need a program. There is enough to do in Germany. What we need in Germany is very clear: we need the game back into the stores. With our association's structure we could easily manage as much member as Italy.

Who is willing to invest in order to bring the game into the stores ? Volunteers welcome !

Luis Filipe Horta Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:09 pm

Janus_Gersie wrote:Who is willing to invest in order to bring the game into the stores ? Volunteers welcome !

We need the same for Portugal.
Without the game in the stores it is very hard to develop our Sport.

Heinz Eder Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:33 pm

I'm sorry but I only read the whole conversation here today.
Discussing about an EGM brought us to topics like the WW2
Discussing about promotion of the sport brought us to M. Thatcher

The popularity of something is only defined by the number of people supporting it. If promotion would happen in all countries there would be more players in all countries. The success of promotion would be bigger with material available in shops we don't need to mention that. Everybody who has a different opinion is welcomed to come to the vienna sports festival for an example, then this persons maybe understand better what I'm talking about.
Generally there are some show-stoppers, we have. The big board which is needed to play the game. The next show-stopper is that you need to prepare many things before you can play the game in a proper way at home. The next show-stopper is to tell people that they have to order outside of austria by internet or by internet from "unknown private" people from their city or country.
You can't ask people to trust you after speaking for half an hour. Promotion needs a lot of time, people must be ready to spend that time, but in the end we don't need to look for excuses, because in general promotion should/could work the same way in all countries.

Take a table or some tables bring them to a shopping mall and show the game and explain it to interested people and let them try playing on their own. If they are still interested organize a beginners tournament in the shpping mall with a small price and give them some information about the association and clubs in their area.
That sounds very easy, but to do that in a proper way needs some people and time. Those small associations which would need that don't have the human resources for something like that, it is like a vicious circle.
To say that promotion like that wasn't done because of M. Thatcher doesn't sound logical to me, sorry. It would be much better to say that in many countries people don't want to spend time with those things, I think it would be much closer to the reality.

Guest Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:18 pm

Janus sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Janus forgive, is the second time that I am wrong on your behalf. (I also often happens to me, written with many r Pierro).

A soon to see if I can give you good news of a distribution in Germany ....

But then there is no excuse ...

Piero

von K. Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:38 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:That sounds very easy, but to do that in a proper way needs some people and time. Those small associations which would need that don't have the human resources for something like that, it is like a vicious circle.
To say that promotion like that wasn't done because of M. Thatcher doesn't sound logical to me, sorry. It would be much better to say that in many countries people don't want to spend time with those things, I think it would be much closer to the reality.

Well, I didn't mean it like that exactly. The cultural, social, religious and political environments are different in many countries, and it affects these things always. And Kostas asked for possible reasons for the different development in Britain and in Italy. I understand that the Thatcher era was not very positive for adults over 30 "playing childrens' game" seriously. And those adults are the ones who make promotion and arrange playing times for kids, also because they have their own kids. People under 30 usually just want to play, which answers your last sentence, and overall this makes the Thatcher reason logical (but not necessarily true).

That was just to explain the logic of bringing Thatcher to the discussion (I'm proud of finding a way to bring the iron lady in afro

).

But I agree with what you write, of course. After reaching some level, things start rolling on their own, and active people come in automatically (it's always about the same percentage of people).

Luis Filipe Horta Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:49 pm

pierocapponi wrote:Janus sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Janus forgive, is the second time that I am wrong on your behalf. (I also often happens to me, written with many r Pierro).

A soon to see if I can give you good news of a distribution in Germany ....

But then there is no excuse ...

Piero

What about the distribution in Portugal ?

von K. Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:58 pm

Having a game in the shops helps the promotion, because not many players or smaller associations have the possibility to keep a stock of sets when doing promotion. And it feels a bit stupid promoting if the interested people can't buy anything when they are enthusiastic. In Finland we have a contact with a market chain, but many details have to be done before getting to the point of having the game in the shops. Promotion by some players is also planned with the store. Hopefully we can make this happen in the winter.

Heinz Eder Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:03 pm

In my opinion the development in Italy is different to many other countries, because there are many people in many different regions of the country who love soccer that much that they also love the smaller copy of it.
They spend much time to make promotion for that game and they sold it as a serious sport. It depends a lot on the way how you present table soccer. If those people who do promotion and play there are running around in normal clothes, everybody will think like you described that adults are playing a children's game.
In many countries it is enough to say it is the most realistic simulation of football to motivate people to try table soccer, but in my opinion it is also very important to think about startegies in countries where soccer is not as popular as in Italy, Greece, Germany, Spain or other countries. The problem with the close relaitionship with soccer is to motivate girls/ladies to play, there we need something different than only telling that it is the most realistic soccer on a table.

anyway congrats that you managed it to involve the iron lady ;-))

Heinz

von K. wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:That sounds very easy, but to do that in a proper way needs some people and time. Those small associations which would need that don't have the human resources for something like that, it is like a vicious circle.
To say that promotion like that wasn't done because of M. Thatcher doesn't sound logical to me, sorry. It would be much better to say that in many countries people don't want to spend time with those things, I think it would be much closer to the reality.

Well, I didn't mean it like that exactly. The cultural, social, religious and political environments are different in many countries, and it affects these things always. And Kostas asked for possible reasons for the different development in Britain and in Italy. I understand that the Thatcher era was not very positive for adults over 30 "playing childrens' game" seriously. And those adults are the ones who make promotion and arrange playing times for kids, also because they have their own kids. People under 30 usually just want to play, which answers your last sentence, and overall this makes the Thatcher reason logical (but not necessarily true).

That was just to explain the logic of bringing Thatcher to the discussion (I'm proud of finding a way to bring the iron lady in ).

But I agree with what you write, of course. After reaching some level, things start rolling on their own, and active people come in automatically (it's always about the same percentage of people).

Heinz Eder Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:04 pm

good work.

von K. wrote:Having a game in the shops helps the promotion, because not many players or smaller associations have the possibility to keep a stock of sets when doing promotion. And it feels a bit stupid promoting if the interested people can't buy anything when they are enthusiastic. In Finland we have a contact with a market chain, but many details have to be done before getting to the point of having the game in the shops. Promotion by some players is also planned with the store. Hopefully we can make this happen in the winter.

Guest Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:26 pm

For the promotion you have to work.

And players like to play.

We continue to help:

In the past 3 years Total Soccer has given about 1,000 boxes to the various clubs and associations worldwide.

We sponsor 10 clubs in Italy and Spain. We sponsored the Europa League, the Major of Bologna and 30 tournaments in various countries.

At this point we are finalizing distribution agreement to very important for Portugal, France, UK, Germany, Austria, Turchia, and Benelux.

Apart from Italy, Spain and Greece, where we are present.

this is our way of doing promotions and marketing.

But here we talk about other things.

Besos

Piero

Heinz Eder Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:33 pm

It needs to work hand in hand.
Companies like total soccer have to promote like you described and the associations (of course the players) have to promote the product.
If you finished the agreement for Austria please contact the austrian federation and I'm sure we will find people to organize show events to promote the product.

thx Heinz

pierocapponi wrote:For the promotion you have to work.

And players like to play.

We continue to help:

In the past 3 years Total Soccer has given about 1,000 boxes to the various clubs and associations worldwide.

We sponsor 10 clubs in Italy and Spain. We sponsored the Europa League, the Major of Bologna and 30 tournaments in various countries.

At this point we are finalizing distribution agreement to very important for Portugal, France, UK, Germany, Austria, Turchia, and Benelux.

Apart from Italy, Spain and Greece, where we are present.

this is our way of doing promotions and marketing.

But here we talk about other things.

Besos

Piero

**Admin** Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:33 am

Looks like 6 countries have asked a new EGM. Finally...

Guest Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:47 am

Silvio Catania on Friday will be in Madrid.

If him do not decide to resign, Spain on Monday to send your signature.

Spain is available to organize the extraordinary congress.

Luis Filipe Horta Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:49 am

Did you read FISTF Circular #51 ?
Follow this link do download circular

What are we all waiting for acting now ?

panagios Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:43 pm

will you be so kind as to copy paste it?
the firewall at work does not allow me to open the site

Luis Filipe Horta Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:06 pm

panagios wrote:will you be so kind as to copy paste it?
the firewall at work does not allow me to open the site

CIRCULAR0051 3rd December 2010

To: All Presidents

All Nations

Dear All,

The next step…

Almost 13 months ago, a number of countries wrote to the FISTF Board in order to make a difference in
this sport. The interpretation of that letter, we know all how it ended up. Even worst we know that the
reactions of a proposed election by the old administration, which did not go in the direction they wanted
to resulted in a number of attacks and abuses.

We are not perfect. We are ready to learn and improve. But from whom we have to learn? Shall we
learn from the associations who are now active in forums saying that Silvio Catania is a dictator? Is this
is so then I stand to be corrected, but these nations what they have offered to table football, at least in
their home country.

We need to re-direct this federation. I said these 10 months ago, and my sole mistake was to give
chance to a number of people to change. What change? Who changed? The attacks are still there. The
abuses continue from day to day. We need to take action. We cannot continue like that.

It’s not fair that countries who are working to promote this sports end up unmotivated because of the
reactions of others. I still say, that all of us must improve but, at least those who rarely do something
must first try and improve their own situation. We offered the possibility to every country to express
itself by the Council formed last September. What results we have?

I am sorry to say but we are facing a situation where the countries who continuously work to improve
this sport are being threatened by simple PC users who go on forums and abuse people. Moreover, we
have nations who have nothing to show for their work in their country who want to teach others of how
to do things. Probably I will be interpreted that am trying to promote the south countries, as
interpretation is here addressed according to one’s circumstance. Let’s be honest and clear! Who are
the countries ready to work to improve this situation?

We need serious people who are ready to work. We want committed people. We have unfortunately
people who are there to demotivate others. Now we even receive a request for an Extraordinary
Congress from Portugal without even one sole signature. This Board has no difficulty in organising an
Extraordinary Congress in order to sit down and discuss the future? But who is ready to attend to
discuss. Are we going to have a full representation, or we want to base our issues on an election by
email votes.

How many persons are ready to sit down genuinely to improve this sport and maintain the rhythm of the
decisions made? We are still finding nations opposing to pay the tournaments with a 31 days invoice
system. Here I take the opportunity to thank the finance commission for their hard work. Mind you all,
none of these people abused the funds as it happened in the past. None of the board members got paid
a World Cup ticket just to go and not even attend the Congress, but simply train with his nation mates.
Moreover we had no handovers at all. We learned that receipts of any claim were just shredded away.
This is the serious way we want for our sports? These people can blame this board?

None of this board abused for his nation the funds. Malta had no penny for organising a Masters
competition which was more aimed at the promotion of table football. Italy is tacking no money from
FISTF for organising the next World Cup, Athens too, for the following one. Shall we blame these
countries or the persons after these countries?

I cannot understand why a number of countries just don’t want to follow the rules. Only little number of
countries followed the issue of the insurance. Can we take more risks? We cannot keep struggling with
obeying to the rules when it’s not convenient to us. We need to aim a professional setup. Those who
are not ready to do it, then FISTF are not the place for them.

We need to kick this situation off. We have a variety of new countries. Some are brainwashed by the
proposals of different fora in order to attack people. Others, like Gibraltar are working hard to invest in
table football. Everyone is blaming Greek Federation, and till now is the only federation who possess a
table football building of its own. Others point finger to the Maltese Federation, but Malta is the only
federation listed with an Olympic Committee, recently honoured with two gold medals and one silver to
the Maltese National Team, Massimo Cremona and Mark Gauci respectively.

Italy is not a perfect country, as much as others. But they have a witness for their work by the numbers
they have. Their investment in youths is a phenomenal issue. Spain increased its numbers by more
than 250% in the last 18 months. England rose from 6/7 clubs to more than 20.

Shall we start to try and copy these people? Shall we try to spot what makes these countries a success
in table football? How they managed to get all this? By work and not by trying to attack and abuse
people.

I find it hard to believe that we have still federation that for some reason don’t even pass the
information, circulars or correspondences to their respective clubs and members for the sole fact that
they want to boycott this board. If this is so, the mistake is not from this end. I feel no regret as for a
number of times I was all ears to hear everyone and try to help anyone.

In the following days you will receive more details about the following projects, which in silence and long
hours of hard work we managed to conclude:

1. Sponsorship agreement in money and equipment.
2. Goalie decision
3. A new contract for a professional an interactive website.
4. A proposal of how the FISTF circuit of tournaments will be in the coming years.
I am confused when I read some statements from Nations which don’t even have a website, something
which can be organised free today. We still have countries, who try to play the role of the experts when
these countries don’t even have promotional material for their own activities. We need to learn from
each other, but instead we want to abuse each other.

There are valuable people who work hard for this sport. These people are attacked continuously and
abused on different fora. I would like to thank these people for keep their motivation high. It is not easy
for anyone to be totally attacked and abused and receives such attitude to continue to work. We are
scarifying our families in order to help this sport. We are here to work hard. It’s not easy. We do commit
mistakes and we are ready to re-address anything which for the benefit of the future of our sports we
find it compulsory to do so. We are here to continue this venture for the coming three years and then we
ask for the judgement.

Truly in Sports

Silvio Catania

FISTF President

zinga Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:41 pm

I did find these sentences amusing:

"Now we even receive a request for an Extraordinary Congress from Portugal without even one sole signature."
Shame on Portugal! How dare them? Very Happy

"Are we going to have a full representation, or we want to base our issues on an election by
email votes."
Didn't we just have a meeting where quite many countries were ready to vote. How did that vote go? Oh, did we just travel to the meeting to not to vote? Mad

"We cannot keep struggling with obeying to the rules when it’s not convenient to us."
What? Isn't the issue just that the BoD does not follow the rules of FISTF? Did I miss something?

"I find it hard to believe that we have still federation that for some reason don’t even pass the
information, circulars or correspondences to their respective clubs and members for the sole fact that
they want to boycott this board."
Now I undestand! It is the national associations that do not pass the information. I thought that there was a problem with the lack of information.

"We are here to continue this venture for the coming three years and then we ask for the judgement. "
Oh dear...

Sorry about the sarcastic voice. I could not resist.

Luis Filipe Horta Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:01 pm

zinga wrote:I did find these sentences amusing:

"Now we even receive a request for an Extraordinary Congress from Portugal without even one sole signature."
Shame on Portugal! How dare them?

I made the same question to the portuguese association BoD a few minutes ago.
Let's focus to the FISTF problems now.
About the portuguese problems let us the portuguese players to solve them.

**Admin** Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:13 pm

Poor Silvio, I'll go to the church and pray for him. I'll even send him some savings to pay him some holiday (maybe in Afghanistan or Iraq)...

Seriously, it's soooo funny. These people think they have all the rights but they forget they have duties such as:
- making the handbook. Right now nobody knows the existing rules (do teams still qualify for the EC from the rankings or not?)
- having a website (not just with "circulars")
- publishing news
- sending news (not saying that people should find the news themselves, lol)
- being fair and helping all countries, from the smallest ones to the big ones. Silvio was the one who said he didn't want to reply to Robert Smith because "he's not the official contact for Australia" (what a joke).
- taking serious decisions (organising the Masters in Malta with "special rules" and just 3 weeks in advance was such a stupid decision)

This Board is a disaster but if I understand Silvio, it's because he didn't get enough support from the previous Board. In my case, many people understood I didn't want to support people who stabbed me in the back (and because I publish an emotional feeling on Facebook, Silvio deciding alone to suspend me for 2 years (what a fair decision!!!)) but if I remember well, Heinz was the only one who worked in the sports department till september...

At least he manages to be funny. Poor Silvio, it's just time to tell you "bye bye"...

zinga Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:25 pm

Luis Filipe Horta wrote:
zinga wrote:I did find these sentences amusing:

"Now we even receive a request for an Extraordinary Congress from Portugal without even one sole signature."
Shame on Portugal! How dare them?

I made the same question to the portuguese association BoD a few minutes ago.
Let's focus to the FISTF problems now.
About the portuguese problems let us the portuguese players to solve them.

Just to make sure you understood me correctly. I did not criticize Portuguese association. I just find it amusing that Silvio did highlight the whole non-signature issue in his letter.

Luis Filipe Horta Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:37 pm

zinga wrote:
Just to make sure you understood me correctly. I did not criticize Portuguese association. I just find it amusing that Silvio did highlight the whole non-signature issue in his letter.

We should criticize the Portuguese association BoD also if they did not make his job as they should has done. But this is not the truth. I confirmed the signature of the APS president.

Although, all Silvio's highlights are very funny, this sentence "We are here to continue this venture for the coming three years and then we ask for the judgement" is hilarious.

Janus_Gersie Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:38 pm

zinga wrote:
Luis Filipe Horta wrote:
zinga wrote:I did find these sentences amusing:

"Now we even receive a request for an Extraordinary Congress from Portugal without even one sole signature."
Shame on Portugal! How dare them?

I made the same question to the portuguese association BoD a few minutes ago.
Let's focus to the FISTF problems now.
About the portuguese problems let us the portuguese players to solve them.
Just to make sure you understood me correctly. I did not criticize Portuguese association. I just find it amusing that Silvio did highlight the whole non-signature issue in his letter.

And - to be honest: There is a signature of the president !!!!

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