Europa League: for or against?

bring your material to shops in at least all member countries of FISTF and you will see that all associations will be able to do the same development you do in Spain, maybe then you would think different about some associations.
As I told so many times, be able and ready to give all associations the same possibilities, then you can build an opinion about the work in the different associations.

Heinz

pierocapponi wrote:Vincent writes what is difficult to comment on.

Some things if I want to say:

- Gibraltar, which is not a country, and their presence also creates a political problem Spain is an invention of Vincent. The Spanish federation works with them from day one. They were people like Granados, Heredia, Murciano, Montaño which has helped Alan Crisp, Manolo Martinez and all her friends to start with table football. We wanted to involve them in the Spanish league and today are friends more.

- It's amazing that Vicente discuss it. He knows very well that Total Soccer has helped many countries, Cipro, Pakistan, Portugal, Argentina, Angola, Brazil, etc. etc. .. .. and that what we are doing.

- Incredible Vincent also talks about Gibraltar when he has received the vote of India that has a player, and Monaco which has 4.

- It is incredible that does not realize that Italy, Spain, Malta, Greece, France, Holland, England, Scotland, Argentina addition to Gibraltar, voted against it. By the way, with a vote of Wales would have lost anyway.

- I want to remind non Vincent that Denmark is a member of the FISTF.

- I also remind Vincent, a journalist that the press medium offense is a crime.

Jenus finish telling that one thing is the discussion, constructive criticism, proposals, ideas, and quite another, the offense, defamation and maleducacion.

When you want to really know what we are doing could explain such as we have gone from 38-168 players (more than half under 19) in Spain in 18 months.

Of course this is not interesting. Nothing interesting to discuss, get jeans and drinking beer.

Calm down everyone, not going to get tired of non work.

Gracias desde Madrid.

Piero

Heinz,

So far we have only to Spain, Italy, England, Portugal and Greece.
But I assure you that it is only a matter of product. There are many people who did not play tournaments because the atmosphere was very bad.
We are growing because we have changed the environment.

Not only for the Total Soccer.

Un abrazo.

Piero

India voted because they paid their membership fee and therefore could be FISTF members. But what is shocking the most:
- that India is allowed to vote?
or
- that the USA (or Northern Ireland or Singapore or Australia) are not allowed to vote because they are not members of FISTF for a question of money?

Gibraltar is a special case but I'm not the person who caused a problem by accepting them as FISF members. Back 30 years ago, Gibraltar was already a member of both FISA and ETF. Table football was the center of attention when Joseph Bonfante became the FISA junior world champion.

So having Gibraltar as a nation in FISTF can only be positive, just like Monaco (a small country taking part to all Olympic games) is positive for the sport.

Piero,
ask several countries with the experience, the small country Austria had already about 200 players, when material was in shops available, the austrian federation was one of the best organized (i don't know if it still is) and it wasn't possible to stop the loss of players who changed their private priorities. New players only join when they can buy the material, that's a fact I hope, without new players numbers will go down, if players stop.
As long as some countries don't have that possibility you can't ask more than 5 to 10 players from those associations every second year maybe, who will continue playing after the first months.

Of course it is not the only thing, but the most important in my opinion.

Heinz

@ Vincent
I am anyway a friend of putting the United Kingdom into only one federation

@ Colin
Sorry, I only want to tease you a bit

@ Piero
You are welcome to launch Total Soccer in Germany. No question. We are waiting on you? Why didn´t contacted you anyone here in the 80.000000 citizen market? I am waiting on it than more then half a year. BTW: I ´ll give a well-disposed hint. Most of all are not well speaking english and even when you use a translator to communicate here, please make sure at least to write the names of the person you want to contact correctly (Janus - not Jenus).

@ Stefano
Heinz pointed very well. If Germany will have the same chance like the other nations Piero has already named who have Total Soccer in the german shops, than you can start riding your attacks against Germany again. Until that time not only me would appriciate it, if you will be quiet in this case. Please put your concentration on your job as Sports Director. Here you have enough to do, as we all can see.

Thossa don't worry for my job......

I'm waiting to see your work in your country. I have not seen anything since you have eliminated De Angelis many yesrs ago......

In Italy there is a song ...... words words words.....

it is a beatiful song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HweU-Nc__HE

pierocapponi wrote:Jenus finish telling that one thing is the discussion, constructive criticism, proposals, ideas, and quite another, the offense, defamation and maleducacion.

Please show me where and when I left the road of objectivity. Did I attack somebody ? Did I react offensive or by defamation ?

I am not sure if I got what you wanted to explain.

Greetings from Bucuresti
Janus

this conversation comes to nothing as usual.

Let me clarify two things and leave it here:

- Contact for distribution to Germany Giochi Preziosi. Only the World Cup have been sold in the countries I mentioned earlier, 125,000 and 80,000 Game Set team box. we have spoken with Bayern Munich to request the license. Germany is a market for any company. We have problems with the distribution tells us why table football not played anyone, and that the jurisdiction of "Tip and Kick" is very strong.

- Gibraltar is a British overseas territory and not a country. This is not a detail.

- Countries that do not pay the fee can not be members FISTF can not organize Grand Prix, etc. .. just why discriminate against those that do pay. or not?

I apologize to Janus for the translation of its name.

Piero

p.s: Janus, he was not talking about you. You use a harsh tone but offense is another matter

Stefano the joke is good, but the language of the FISTF ofcial the French ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM1cFfAbLi0&feature=related

i prefer the version with Dalila..

Not every good player is automatically an expert in sport matters.
Not every responsible for sport matters in his home country is automatically a good FISTF Sports Director.

Neither Olivier Peré, nor Heinz Eder lost the balance in handling the associations fair.

I don't write often , but here is my opinion.
Vincent you don't need to attack the current board for a take over. There were elections made. It was a game of politics and this time you lost. Thats life . Maybe the next time you win again. If this happens it is ok because again there will be an elections decision. So there are no take overs. There are only elections. And every candidate does his best in all the ways [fair and unfair] in order to win. Nobody lives in a fairytale. This is real life. You know my opinion for you. I believe that you were a bad president, and in the beginning of the greek issue you took wrong decisions and the matter never ended. Also i don't like your central european attitude. I can't understand why for example amsterdam and holland [ with about 40 members] must organize a major and not greece with 150 existing players and organizing experience [remember europa cup 2007] . Maybe because you can go by car. I can't understand why we have to play wc again after only 4 years in germany, and not in malta , greece and italy that asked for it. Maybe because you can go by car there. I have many things that i agree with you such us your opinion of mons major. Every country has its own culture and every one must respect that. I dont like that capponi says that he cannot bring sponsors because some of us are drinking beers. First you bring the sponsors and then we will see the results. Also there are many points that i disagree, for example i don't understand why we had 3 germans to a board of 7. I can't believe that all other countries have incompetent people. But i have to admit that i believe that you are a fantastic communication director and that you have worked very very hard for fistf. I appreciate it a lot.
As for gersie , the president of the 40 players i want to tell him not to make fun and insult our nation by marking our name with black letters. With 150 existing players and many fantastic tournaments it is certain that we know better than him.
For stefano i believe that we all must give him time to take his decisions and if his ideas fail, then to criticize him. But we should be patient. The only thing i want to tell him as a piece of advice is that he should make known all of his ideas and criteria in public so everybody can understand his ways and reasons , and everybody to be aware for sport matters in fistf. Inside the pitch my team and stefano's team are big opponents , but as a person i respect him a lot and i trust him. I only mention his name because i have been playing for over 15 years abroad and i don't know any catania, capponi etc. But i do know stefano. All the others must first prove their skills in order to gain my respect. We will soon see .

GIORGOS KOUTIS

Thank you very much Giorgos!

I would like to discuss with everyone on the forums searching for better solutions. Unfortunately this is not possible. Vincent, Thossa and Gersie are on this forum just to criticize because today are no longer on the board.

I do not claim to be always right but I'm sure that I haven't always wrong.

thanks again for your words. For me are very important.

Not every bad responsable for development in his home country is automatically a bad FISTF Director.

..... but often this happened

To criticize is easy? Remember when we were in the Board and others were not in the Board, the situation was the same the the roles were just vice-versa. And at the time it was normal.

The only difference is about honesty and telling the truth. The way elections took place, people lied, made fake promises is really frustrating and impossible to admit. And if these people have no problem with their soul after all the lies they made, then it just proves the Board is in the hands of the devil!

To Giorgos: Greece was not given a Major because of all the problems in the greek association, a big association of maybe 150 people but people who are not mature enough to solve their own problems together. That's the reality. You'd better know what you're talking about...

But you are right one one thing: we (and me in particular) took the wrong the decision to support Leonidas Koutromanos. He's proving he has absolutely nothing to do in the FISTF Board as he's doing absolutely nothing! i can't believe he was appointed communication director. What communication?

And why to you claim we did not get the world cup to Malta or Greece? They never sent a candidature file!

Finally, more and more times passes and I realize it's a good thing I'm not in the Board anymore because table football does not deserve me anymore! And sorry if I don't accept to work with liars and bandits, people who would sell their own mother to have "the power", I'm just too honest for that.

And to Stefano, we are on this Board because the FISTF is UNABLE to run a forum and the Board has still everything to learn about communication, democracy and freedom of speech.

Sorry if you think I'm agressive but some things need to be said sometimes.

Coppenolle always answer in the usual way....... now we are liars, bandits......

This is not the way to discuss and build something for the future.

The members of the old board started all threads saying that it is all wrong. Then Coppenolle switch to insults and that's without discussing the matter.

Dear Vincent you're not aggressive. Dear Vincent you're just angry about losing the election. For me if you want to be re-elected President there are no problems. I'm going willingly to do the work in my country. Unlike your German friends I know how.

P.S. - only for the sake of truth, you said:
1) "(greek) people who are not mature enough to solve their own problems together"
Greeks are not mature? Who are you? Doctor Freud?
2)" And why to you claim we did not get the world cup to Malta or Greece? They never sent a candidature file!"
Italy and Greece have sent the cadidature. With three votes against two the old board have given the world cup 2010 to a German village of 8000 inhabitants. A week later there was the congress. You have sent immediately 1500 euros to the organizers. The three votes were yours and the two Germans.

Stefano De Francesco phoned me in december telling "Vincent, I support you at 100% and I want you to be president. Italy will support you and we also need Heinz Eder to remain sports director. I will send you my proposals and we'll work on it together".

After one week, no proposal from Stefano De Francesco who, in my back, was supporting Silvio Catania to become president and himself was candidate to be sports director instead of Heinz Eder.

And at the end, you dare to say you are not a liar and a person who betrays others?

You are also one of the persons who made all the fuss to prevent the world cup in Denmark while, a few weeks before the world cup in Rotterdam, you said it was fine to have the world cup in Denmark!

About the new candidatures, FISTF received 2 candidatures: Germany and Italy and we decided to have a WC 2010 in Germany and the next one in Italy.

Now if Greece or Malta wanted to be candidate, they had to send a candidature file. That's all.

About the grek problems, you know very well I say the truth. Because Greeks could not find solutions to their problems, they asked FISTF to take a decision. Probably the decision was bad but in such a situation, any situation would have been bad anyway.

Stefano, you lost all my respect because you betrayed me and after the elections, you said "we need you to continue your work". Sorry but you are a disgusting person, just like Piero Capponi is.

That you agree or not is not my problem. I just think you are a LIAR, nothing else and a DICTATOR who does not care about the opinion of other people.

At least everyone will know what I think of you. End of the discussion.

I want to add two other things:

1) Two Germans voted in favor of Germany. I beg you find it correct?

2) The fact that you voted for a German village instead of Rome demonstrates your capacity as President.

Congratulations!!!!

I repeat if you want to be reelected president tell me. So we end this tragic comedy.

Sorry but to be president of an association made of people like you, I would have no reason to be proud! I gave enough during more than 7 years and when I see all the respect I got from a few people like you, I realized giving so much time and energy for FISTF was the biggest mistake in my life.

That 2 Germans voted is a fact that these 2 Germans had been elected by the FISTF Congress back in 2006. When there was nobody to organize the WC or the EC, FISTF was happy to have Belgium and Germany as "last minute solutions". Of course people forget things very fast...

De Francesco wrote:Not every bad responsable for development in his home country is automatically a bad FISTF Director.

..... but often this happened

Yes, at the moment with a whole pile of examples

I want to point out, for me it is not a big thing, not to be in the BoD anymore. I was eight years part of it and I did a lot of proofed good things for the community. Now it is time for others. For me really not a problem.
The only thing that I didn´t understand, was the way the provisional BoD wanted to be elected. I asked Silvio Catania in November 2009 why he don´t want to wait until regular elections in September 2010. His answer was: I don´t to wait so long. The Frankfurt thing was an expensive matter for FISTF, needless. Nothing is better now, comparing with the situation before the take over.

Stefano, you have no fair and objective opinion. So far I am still sceptical about your competence to be a good sports director for FISTF. I provide evidence for this with your alligation I would only use this forum to critize. This is incorrect and just glib. I gave a lot of proofed recommendations and ideas in.

FISTF community has to learn about the fact, that the new Sports Director still has to learn a lot to be a good one and he is not able to take critismn, but he is very good in sneering.

Now the new discussion about Rain as host city for the World Cup is another proof for the inhability to respect facts with a lack of information and ignoring of respect to the organisers. BTW: There was not a 3 - 2 voting for Rain. Who tell those lies? Who gave you this information? Feel free to contact me privately.

Well, what an interesting discussion to follow. However, I wouldn't mind if you (all) could leave the (many times already heard) insults and concentrate on the matters.

- We all know that the current board sucks in communication. However, it is good to have Stefano and Piero in this forum to have a discussion.
- We all know that the extraordinary congress was a joke with voting against the statutes and voting against wishes of the old and current board. However, what is done is done! We just have to live with the decision and not harp on the issue any more. Lets concentrate to the future congress and the agenda for the development of the game. At least the current board seems to include "dead wood" i.e. members doing absolutely nothing. Maybe in the Congress we can select the best persons with the best agendas for the best director posts.
- Could you Vincent and Thossa give a break for the current board and let then do the work? Could you Stefano and Piero do what you have promised, a.k.a make an agenda for the development of the game for the congress, and not make quick decisions without proper discussion with the member nations?
- We all know that the World Cup issue has been screwed up big time. I really don't understand the decision against the Danes, and I really don't understand selecting Germany just before the Extraordinary Congress. I really don't understand Stefano dissing the Rain in Germany, but forgetting that the WC was in small village of Les Herbiers couple of years ago, and organized by the current board member. Was the WC in France a success story or a failure, Stefano? However again, what is done is done! Lets just give us support for Germany and Italy to organize wonderfull WC's!
- Yes, we all know that the game is much bigger in Spain and Italy than in Germany and Finland. Is that a reason for current board members to blame and mock the organisers in those countries, or should they concentrate helping those countries to develop the game? Isn't the latter the aim of FISTF?

Blaah, was this a topic for the Europe Cup? My personal opinion is that I fear that the Europe League will be failure. If we had at least six (proper) teams in ten European countires, we could divide them to the two competitions. I can only ask, what was wrong with the current Europa Cup, that pushed for the change?

Nice said Zinga!

It's true that Les Herbiers is a very small town in a very bad place to reach in France but at the time, laurent Garnier said it would be a great tournament. Here the same person is judging RAIN just on the fact it's a small town. Out of logic!

It's the job of the FISTF Board to help the german association to have a good tournament, not the contrary!

to the Rock:
I hope I'm not the third german you mentioned, because there is a (only a small) difference between Austria and Germany.
To the other topics, you mentioned in your post, you maybe forgot some things. The Europa Cup 2007 was a good tournament? Maybe it was a good week-end for most of the players there, but the happenings before the EC during the week-end and the next 2 years after that week-end haven't been a good advertisement for the greek federation to be able to organize a Major or even a World Cup. FISTF BoD was only asked to take a decision to blame somebody for something the greek authorities of table soccer hadn't been able to solve. We did our part, greek players did their part in blaming us for taking a decision. I also want to remember you, why all the problems came out. All the years the greek federation never had official statutes. That was ok till the day you had problems with elections, so it would have been better to blame those who were not able all over the years to make the greek federation official, instead of supporting them against the FISTF BoD.
Another strange thing was to see how some people change sides, like others their underware every day. Conclusion is that you should be happy, that FISTF BoD was silly enough to take a decision on that topic, instead of excluding the whole community in Greece, till the responsible people would have found a decision. Would you prefer that? We didn't prefer it, maybe that was the mistake.
The story with the Major also is a different one. If you can remember the first appointed location was London, but then they got in troubles and we had to cancel the Major and find another place for the Major, so we sent out an official communication that we look for an organizer of the 4th Major (we even had 1 or 2 years with only 3 Majors). Greece didn't send an application, so the Netherlands became the Major organizer. If somebody in Greece is telling you something different as it seems to be in many other cases too, i can easily proof who is right and who is wrong.
About the World Cup, Greece applied for the WC 2011, because at the time when they sent their application the WC should be organized in Denmark. After some people successfully cancelled the WC in Denmark we sent out a new request for applications, nothing was sent by the greek federation again. One more time I don't know where you take your information from, over the last 2 years I got the feeling that some people in Greece tell some things in a very different and strange version, reality then is totally different.
About an application of the maltesian association I heard the first time today.
If you need the form where the greek association applied I can send you I have everything saved on my pc.

Heinz

Admin wrote:It's true that Les Herbiers is a very small town in a very bad place to reach in France but at the time, laurent Garnier said it would be a great tournament. Here the same person is judging RAIN just on the fact it's a small town. Out of logic!

Well, I think Leas Herbiers WC really was a well organised and great tournament! Lets hope Rain will be also.