europa cups

Yesterday i receive a mail with a list contains the number of clubs which qualify per country.
I saw 8 !!!! italian clubs (9 in case because last year italian club was the winner of europa cup). All serie A will take part in europa cups!!!
6 clubs by Belgium and 6 clubs by Austria!!!!!!!! I saw last world ranking and i find only 3 austrian clubs!!!! Maybe they will send in Rome the second team of Mattesburg, W.Neustadt and Royal!!!
I saw 4 clubs by portugal in the list but only 2 in world ranking!!!!!
I also 4 clubs by England but the best position for english team in W.R. is 28th.
The same number (4) of teams i saw in list for Greece but i find 9 teams in world ranking and 3 teams in best 25 of W.R. (the greek vice president of fistf care and protect the greek clubs...)

WHO IS THE GENIUS , FANTASTIC MANAGER WHO CREATE THESE "FRANCENSTEIN" EUROPA CUPS?
I propose in future all europa cups to take place in Italy. Every club spend about 2000e to travel to abroad so 9 italian clubs will save 18.000e. They can give the money to rest europe clubs. Then all the clubs can travel free to italy so all the clubs (italian and rest) will be happy. Or italian clubs can keep the money for more transfers.
I also propose in future in world cup to take part 8 italian players and only 2 for the rest countries. The same system for individual and team event.
Maybe the genius fantastic manager want to destroy the rest federations and wants to create the italian league (individual and team event) as the only WORLD LEAGUE.
I also propose to let free the number of foreign players for italian clubs so all the players of other countries to find a italian club for their future if they want to continue playing in top tournaments.

Congratulations to BoD for these ideas for the future of world (sorry italian i mean) table soccer.

p.s How many italian will vote in next FISTF elections?

For example in uefa champions league take part 76 teams by 52 countries.
3 countries with 4 teams
3 countries with 3 teams
9 countries with 2 teams
37 countries with one team

In uefa europa league take part 3 teams per EVERY country except 3 countries with 4 teams (7-9 position in uefa's ranking) and the last 3 countries with 1 team.

SO UEFA IN TWO TOURNAMENTS WITH ABOUT 235 TEAMS ALLOW MAXIMUM 7 TEAMS BY THE BEST COuNTRIES.
FISTF'S BoD members are more clever and allow more teams for the best country in two tournaments with about 40 clubs (17% of uefa's participations) .
UEFA give a second opportunity to clubs which lost in the difficult champions league to take part in europa league. But FISTF select different places for europa cups so second opportunity is not possible for the clubs by weak countries which took part in champions league. So many clubs will select or to take part in Europa league or don't part in europa cups.
I gave in forum before few months my plan with solutions for these occasions but the genius fantastic managers had better ideas...

One of the funny things is to see PORTUGAL is allowed to have 2 teams in every Cup while there has been no portuguese team in the last 4 European Cups. And the last time portuguese took part was in 2006 when the tournament was played in... Portugal.

Once again, I believe table football is not ready to have 2 Europa Cups. We have to make sure to have stronger associations and stronger leagues before we start thinking about having 2 Europa Cups.

The other reason is that for the last few years, FISTF struggled to find organizers; Tournai and Mattersburg were "last minute options" and finally we come to a situation where we'll need to have 2 organizers per year.

And finally there will be no qualifyers any more from the world rankings in the future? What a joke for people who travel around Europe to qualify.

Ridiculous!

Who decide the follow criteria?

part of circular
According to a special table based and worked on the results of the clubs per nation in the
past five years, the Sports Department issued a working procedure of how many clubs
from each country can qualify to the Champions League. This table was worked on the
following bases. For any team from any nation winning the title, the Nation was awarded
15 points. For the finalist 12 points are awarded, while for a semi‐finalist 9 points. For all
the clubs reaching the quarter finals 6 points were awarded to the nation, 3 points for
every club reaching the last 16 places and 1 point for every club in the last 32. The ledger
below shows the distribution of points.

Why the past five years?
Why 15 points for the first?
Why he forgot to split the points with the number of teams which represented the countries? As example Belgium have 75 points Greece 43 points but at least double teams of Belgium took part in Europa cups. What is better? 75 points by 4 teams or 43 by 2 teams? UEFA use this system. But we know that uefa's managers are fool.

Another question. Why only one country with 8 teams? Why only 2 countries with 6 teams?
UEFA have 3 countries with 7 teams, 3 countries with 6 teams, 3 countries with 5 teams, 6 countries with 4 teams etc. Maybe i know the answer. UEFA'S MANAGER ARE FOOLS.

Another question. If Greece had 2 teams in top 8 of world ranking then the greek championship cann't take part in Champions league because Greece have only 2 positions in Champions league. YES OR NOT?
"parts of circular"
"FROM RANKINGS
The system for qualification for this year is similar to the ones in previous years. The first 8
clubs at the World Rankings on August 31st, will qualify directly to the Champions League
with a maximum of two clubs per nation.".....
From this we conclude that following the first 8 which are qualified through the rankings,
then each country has to submit the rest of teams to the Champions League. For example,
Italy with two already qualified from the rankings, must supply the name of two other
clubs. From Austria and Belgium one more team each has to be nominated through the
Austrian and Belgian federation.

Another question. If all countries in your table send all teams the number of participations will be 32. (31 plus holder of champions league). But you haven't in your list countries which are members of Fistf like Cyprous, Ireland and N.Ireland. You forgot them or these countries cann't play in Europa cups? If these countries decide to "send" teams then the participations will be more than 32.
part of circular
"Should a country don’t supply the number of teams as per table above, it means that the
final number of participants will be reduced. The number will never exceed 32, but it can be less, according to the number of clubs approving their participation. There will be no
inheritance from one country to another with the risk to end with a Champions League
with 6/7 Italian or Belgian teams."

I can continue writing for days but because i am fool like uefa's managers i prefer to stop.

I think there should be some corrections, but the general idea is ok in my opinion.
The number of starters depends on the results of the clubs from that country in the last 5 years Kostas. There are some strange things and facts, but year after year the ranking will become better, because of the editions without teams from those countries.
The second correction need to happen in the Wild Cards of the tournament. In my opinion there should be only 1 Wild Card for a country, if a club of that country is in the Top 16 for an example or maybe even only in the Top 10. The best team of a country placed in the Top 10 or 16 should have a Wild Card (one additional starter for the Champions League).
The rest of the Champions League ranking should be taken in the future too. I think it is more interesting if the number of starters could change every year, than having every year the same number of starters for every country.
In the system of the tournament itself, the board should think about it, if it wouldn't be better to play a second group stage, instead of bigger groups to have less knock out games, because there were problems with those games for the places in every edition in the last years.

The changes for the World Cup selections should be considered for the next edition too.

1. U19, U15, U12 and Female should only get a maximum of 2 Wild Cards out of the top 8 in WR.
2. If there are more than 3 Wilkd Cards out of 16 or more than 2 Wild Cards out of 8 for 1 country, there shouldn't be taken number 17 or number 9 from WR (only top8 and top16).
3. The order of substitutes was changed for this WC, but it need to be changed again for the next edition to make it more fair and better again.

actual situation:
1. pot
all 1st subs of countries with no Wild Card
2. pot
all 2nd subs of countries with no Wild Card
3. pot
all 1st subs of countries with 1 Wild Card
4. pot
all 2nd subs of countries with 1 Wild Card
5. pot
all 1st subs of countries with 2 Wild Cards
6. pot
all 2nd subs of countries with 2 Wild Cards
7. pot
all 1st subs of countries with 3 Wild Cards
8. pot
all 2nd subs of countries with 3 Wild Cards

with that system a country with no Wild Card would have 4 starters in the WC before a country with 1 Wild Card would get the 4th starter, that's not fair.

the more correct system should work like that.

1. pot
all 1st subs of countries with no Wild Card
2. pot
all 2nd subs of countries with no Wild Card and all 1st subs of countries with 1 Wild Card
3. pot
all 2nd subs of countries with 1 Wild Card and all 1st subs of countries with 2 Wild Cards
4. pot
all 2nd subs from countries with 2 Wild Cards and all 1st subs of countries with 2 Wild Cards
5. pot
all 2nd subs of countries with 2 Wild Cards and all 1st subs of countries with 3 Wild Cards
6. pot
all 2nd subs of countries with 3 Wild Cards

with that system the ranking of the player would decide which country would get the 4 starter first.

Those changes would help to play the World Cup in Open and Veterans with 40 players in the actual situation which would mean a more attractive system for the players (8 Groups of 5) and it would mean more possibilities in the other categories because of having more substitutes than actually. In U19, U15, U12 it would be possible to play with 20 (4 Groups of 5) and the Female should be played with 16 then (4 Groups of 4).
The most important thing should be, not to have more than 5 players from the same country in a category.

In my opinion that should be the way the WC and Champions League (Europa Cup) should move to.

Heinz

kechris wrote:Yesterday i receive a mail with a list contains the number of clubs which qualify per country.
I saw 8 !!!! italian clubs (9 in case because last year italian club was the winner of europa cup). All serie A will take part in europa cups!!!
6 clubs by Belgium and 6 clubs by Austria!!!!!!!! I saw last world ranking and i find only 3 austrian clubs!!!! Maybe they will send in Rome the second team of Mattesburg, W.Neustadt and Royal!!!
I saw 4 clubs by portugal in the list but only 2 in world ranking!!!!!
I also 4 clubs by England but the best position for english team in W.R. is 28th.
The same number (4) of teams i saw in list for Greece but i find 9 teams in world ranking and 3 teams in best 25 of W.R. (the greek vice president of fistf care and protect the greek clubs...)

WHO IS THE GENIUS , FANTASTIC MANAGER WHO CREATE THESE "FRANCENSTEIN" EUROPA CUPS?
I propose in future all europa cups to take place in Italy. Every club spend about 2000e to travel to abroad so 9 italian clubs will save 18.000e. They can give the money to rest europe clubs. Then all the clubs can travel free to italy so all the clubs (italian and rest) will be happy. Or italian clubs can keep the money for more transfers.
I also propose in future in world cup to take part 8 italian players and only 2 for the rest countries. The same system for individual and team event.
Maybe the genius fantastic manager want to destroy the rest federations and wants to create the italian league (individual and team event) as the only WORLD LEAGUE.
I also propose to let free the number of foreign players for italian clubs so all the players of other countries to find a italian club for their future if they want to continue playing in top tournaments.

Congratulations to BoD for these ideas for the future of world (sorry italian i mean) table soccer.

p.s How many italian will vote in next FISTF elections?

Kostas, you are right that the number of points should be divided, that would be a better ranking.
The thing about the WR i also didn't understand, but I think that greece would have 2 Wild Cards plus the starters according on the ranking of the last 5 years.
About the other things, we are not in the same situation according on number of clubs, so I think there is a modification needed, if we use the same numbers like UEFA, we wouldn't need any qualification criteria anymore, you also don't have to forget that the total number of 8 doesn't mean 8 fix starters in Europa Cup, a percentage of those teams have to play a qualification to enter the main event, which is not existing in table soccer.

Heinz

kechris wrote:Who decide the follow criteria?

part of circular
According to a special table based and worked on the results of the clubs per nation in the
past five years, the Sports Department issued a working procedure of how many clubs
from each country can qualify to the Champions League. This table was worked on the
following bases. For any team from any nation winning the title, the Nation was awarded
15 points. For the finalist 12 points are awarded, while for a semi‐finalist 9 points. For all
the clubs reaching the quarter finals 6 points were awarded to the nation, 3 points for
every club reaching the last 16 places and 1 point for every club in the last 32. The ledger
below shows the distribution of points.

Why the past five years?
Why 15 points for the first?
Why he forgot to split the points with the number of teams which represented the countries? As example Belgium have 75 points Greece 43 points but at least double teams of Belgium took part in Europa cups. What is better? 75 points by 4 teams or 43 by 2 teams? UEFA use this system. But we know that uefa's managers are fool.

Another question. Why only one country with 8 teams? Why only 2 countries with 6 teams?
UEFA have 3 countries with 7 teams, 3 countries with 6 teams, 3 countries with 5 teams, 6 countries with 4 teams etc. Maybe i know the answer. UEFA'S MANAGER ARE FOOLS.

Another question. If Greece had 2 teams in top 8 of world ranking then the greek championship cann't take part in Champions league because Greece have only 2 positions in Champions league. YES OR NOT?
"parts of circular"
"FROM RANKINGS
The system for qualification for this year is similar to the ones in previous years. The first 8
clubs at the World Rankings on August 31st, will qualify directly to the Champions League
with a maximum of two clubs per nation.".....
From this we conclude that following the first 8 which are qualified through the rankings,
then each country has to submit the rest of teams to the Champions League. For example,
Italy with two already qualified from the rankings, must supply the name of two other
clubs. From Austria and Belgium one more team each has to be nominated through the
Austrian and Belgian federation.

Another question. If all countries in your table send all teams the number of participations will be 32. (31 plus holder of champions league). But you haven't in your list countries which are members of Fistf like Cyprous, Ireland and N.Ireland. You forgot them or these countries cann't play in Europa cups? If these countries decide to "send" teams then the participations will be more than 32.
part of circular
"Should a country don’t supply the number of teams as per table above, it means that the
final number of participants will be reduced. The number will never exceed 32, but it can be less, according to the number of clubs approving their participation. There will be no
inheritance from one country to another with the risk to end with a Champions League
with 6/7 Italian or Belgian teams."

I can continue writing for days but because i am fool like uefa's managers i prefer to stop.

Heinz Eder wrote:Kostas, you are right that the number of points should be divided, that would be a better ranking.
The thing about the WR i also didn't understand, but I think that greece would have 2 Wild Cards plus the starters according on the ranking of the last 5 years.
About the other things, we are not in the same situation according on number of clubs, so I think there is a modification needed, if we use the same numbers like UEFA, we wouldn't need any qualification criteria anymore, you also don't have to forget that the total number of 8 doesn't mean 8 fix starters in Europa Cup, a percentage of those teams have to play a qualification to enter the main event, which is not existing in table soccer.

If Fistf wanted a ladder for beggining a new Europa cup it MUST use the official world ranking.
But maybe they want to destroy world ranking. They decided to stop world ranking for qualification in Europa cups. Now the clubs will stop travelling to abroad to international tournaments. The small tournaments will die in few years. THEY ARE DANGEROUS FOR TABLE SOCCER.
Heinz stop protect them.
You wrote that UEFA use qualifications rounds. Yes so maybe many teams from the 7 will not continue in main events. But in table soccer all the 9 italian teams will play in main events. One more proof that uefa care for PROFFESIONAL soccer and Fistf don't care for AMATEUR's table soccer.

I don't know what the reason is, but you seem to get me wrong every time, undependent what I write. I don't protect anybody.
In my view the general idea is a good one to have such a ranking, the way of working out the idea should have been better.
In my view we should continue with the idea of that ranking, but the new board and sports director (there will be a new one in any case) should immediately modify the system to correct the things you mentioned totally right, that's all I wanted to say.
If we need an Europa League or not, should be the decision of a new sports director. If you read my post I totally agree with you that we need Wild Cards for the EC, but not as much as in the past, but we should give the best team of a country ranked in the top 16 the chance of a Wild Card.
In the old system we took 2 of each countries in the top 8 and then if there were more we took number 9 or number 10 or even higher ranked teams.
With that system we maybe can motivate more teams to travel, because they have to enter "only" the top 16 and have to be best ranked team of the country to get the Wild Card.
Additionally we would make national leagues stronger in my opinion.

I hope you got me now in the right way.

Heinz

kechris wrote:

Heinz Eder wrote:Kostas, you are right that the number of points should be divided, that would be a better ranking.
The thing about the WR i also didn't understand, but I think that greece would have 2 Wild Cards plus the starters according on the ranking of the last 5 years.
About the other things, we are not in the same situation according on number of clubs, so I think there is a modification needed, if we use the same numbers like UEFA, we wouldn't need any qualification criteria anymore, you also don't have to forget that the total number of 8 doesn't mean 8 fix starters in Europa Cup, a percentage of those teams have to play a qualification to enter the main event, which is not existing in table soccer.

If Fistf wanted a ladder for beggining a new Europa cup it MUST use the official world ranking.
But maybe they want to destroy world ranking. They decided to stop world ranking for qualification in Europa cups. Now the clubs will stop travelling to abroad to international tournaments. The small tournaments will die in few years. THEY ARE DANGEROUS FOR TABLE SOCCER.
Heinz stop protect them.
You wrote that UEFA use qualifications rounds. Yes so maybe many teams from the 7 will not continue in main events. But in table soccer all the 9 italian teams will play in main events. One more proof that uefa care for PROFFESIONAL soccer and Fistf don't care for AMATEUR's table soccer.

Admin wrote:One of the funny things is to see PORTUGAL is allowed to have 2 teams in every Cup while there has been no portuguese team in the last 4 European Cups. And the last time portuguese took part was in 2006 when the tournament was played in... Portugal.

Once again, I believe table football is not ready to have 2 Europa Cups. We have to make sure to have stronger associations and stronger leagues before we start thinking about having 2 Europa Cups.

The other reason is that for the last few years, FISTF struggled to find organizers; Tournai and Mattersburg were "last minute options" and finally we come to a situation where we'll need to have 2 organizers per year.

And finally there will be no qualifyers any more from the world rankings in the future? What a joke for people who travel around Europe to qualify.

Ridiculous!

I've to agree with you Vincent. Perfect words!

Vincent and Sergio we need 2 europa cups.
Of course both of them to take place in the same area.
There are many teams from many weak countries which want to take part in top class tournaments but they don't want to play against high level teams in champions league.
It is better 2 tournaments in the same place with 16 teams than one tournament with 32 teams.
For the same reasons you create veteran category, satellites etc
Now the team events are very popular and the only clubs can enter new players in table soccer.

And do you really think the 4th or 5th team is not "much stronger" than the 3rd or 4th team from Greece or Belgium?

I believe that the game's problem is not the number of international tournaments. There are already many of them. They are so many that they cannibalise. Have you ever asked yourselves why FIFA holds the WC every 4 years and not every year? We are 1500 people (I believe that only 500 are properly active) and we hold the WC every year, 4 GPs, 20 IOs, 800 sats, futures and so on. Now we will have also 2 Euro cups, but no club meetings outside europe. Have mercy!

The real problem is low participation both in numbers of players and in numbers of countries. If nothing is done towards supporting and strengthening the national leagues, the game will eventually die. Also, steps should be taken to make the rules more footy like.

In all, I cannot believe that a board game will such potential to take advantage of the popularity of football is doing so badly.

Ι agree with Panagios. People looking for tournaments with high level profile. Europa cups and Majors are targets for clubs and players.
I want to make a bet. I believe that there are not 16 teams in new Champions league. I am sure for 12 teams by italy austria belgium and greece and maximum 4 by the rest countries.
I am sure that E.L will have more participations maximum 20.
In maximum 36 teams will participate 9 italians (at least 25%).
In BoD we have 3 italians in 7 persons (43%).
So is very easy to understand the decisions.

Kostas, those teams qualified for Champions League can't say they want to play Europa League. There is a list of 4 teams from italy for champions league and 4 teams for Europa League, as far as i udnerstood the system, no substitutes are allowed anymore.
So if a team from italy which should play the Champions League refuse to play the CL, they won't play any tournament on that week-end.
same for any other country.

Heinz

kechris wrote:Ι agree with Panagios. People looking for tournaments with high level profile. Europa cups and Majors are targets for clubs and players.
I want to make a bet. I believe that there are not 16 teams in new Champions league. I am sure for 12 teams by italy austria belgium and greece and maximum 4 by the rest countries.
I am sure that E.L will have more participations maximum 20.
In maximum 36 teams will participate 9 italians (at least 25%).
In BoD we have 3 italians in 7 persons (43%).
So is very easy to understand the decisions.

I made a comment in a much broader spectrum. I feel that the game is being isolated from its base by a near maniac pursuit of "professionalism". On the other hand I see no serious sponsors ,TV coverage or anything of the sort and no serious organization towards this target. I believe that if nothing changes, a game like this will eventually suffer from lack of funds and will die out.

panagios wrote:I believe that the game's problem is not the number of international tournaments. There are already many of them. They are so many that they cannibalise. Have you ever asked yourselves why FIFA holds the WC every 4 years and not every year? We are 1500 people (I believe that only 500 are properly active) and we hold the WC every year, 4 GPs, 20 IOs, 800 sats, futures and so on. Now we will have also 2 Euro cups, but no club meetings outside europe. Have mercy!

The real problem is low participation both in numbers of players and in numbers of countries. If nothing is done towards supporting and strengthening the national leagues, the game will eventually die. Also, steps should be taken to make the rules more footy like.

In all, I cannot believe that a board game will such potential to take advantage of the popularity of football is doing so badly.

Spot on!

CIRCULAR N. 43 - Champions & Europa Leagues
Submitted by sc on Fri, 2010/10/01 - 9:51pm.

Champions & Europa Leagues
In a month’s time, we will be practically on the eve of the kick off of both the Champions League and
Europa League to be held in Mattersburg and Rome respectively.
Here under, one can find the list of clubs to participate in both competitions. This board is looking
forward for a very interesting competition on both cups.
I would like to ask some collaboration from your end, especially the involved Presidents and clubs. We
need urgently the logos of all the clubs, so those clubs which don’t have a YES under the coloumn logo,
please send a JPEG, PNG or BMP format of your logo by not later than Thursday 30th September 2010.

SEE ATTACHED PDF FOR LIST OF TEAMS

I am looking for about a month to find this f---- list but i cann't find.
Please can anyone of you to wake up the communication department to give the official list of both Europa cups in FISTF's site.

You can find some things on http://www.fistf.info/ but nothing else.
http://www.fistfnews.net/ hasn't been updated for many weeks now.
THANK YOU FISTF.

I saw the results in Greek open in 11-12 september 2010. Because the results for ALL TOURNAMENTS IN March April May June July and August are "secrets".

I ENJOY WITH SCORE AND TABLES IN GROUPS 1, 2 AND 10. I ENJOY WITH THE RESULTS IN SEMIFINALS. THE LOOSERS PLAY IN FINAL!!!
BUT THE BEST OF ALL IS THE STATISTICS. ONE PLAYER OF BLACK ROSE ROMA TOOK PART IN TOURNAMENT !!!!! ?????? OF COURSE NO. THE COMPETITION MANAGER CONFUSED THE NEW GREEK CLUB BLADE WITH BLACK ROSE ROMA.
WHO WAS THE COMPETITION MANAGER? OF COURSE THE FANTASTIC COMMUNICATION DIRECTOR OF FISTF !!! I WANT TO GIVE MY CONGRATULATIONS TO CATANIA AND HIS PARTNERS WHO SELECTED HIM FOR MEMBER IN THEIR BoD. AND OF COURSE TO ALL REPRESENTERS WHO VOTE THEM.

p.s THE FIRST F IN FISTF MEAN FUN?

PLEASE LOOK THE CALENDAR IN FISTF SITE. NO TOURNAMENT IN GREECE IN OCTOBER.
BUT IN THE GREEK CALENDAR I SAW GRAND PRIX OF ATHENS IN 16-17 OCTOBER BUT LAST WEEK THEY CHANGE THE DATES SO THE NEW DATE 23-24 OCTOBER.
LAST MONTH WE HAVE A SECRET OPEN NOW WE WILL HAVE A SECRET G.P.
FANTASTIC JOB BY COMMUNICATION DEPARTMENT OF FISTF.
KEEP WALKING. IN FEW MONTHS YOU WILL MANAGE TO DESTROY TABLE SOCCER.

p.s. your problem is how you can stop olympia to take part in tournaments....

The FISTF Calendar also says that the World Cup is in Rome in July.

The FISTF calendar is full of mistakes. The tournament in Singapore (3rd w-e of september) was postponed to october, the Open of Naples is NOT memntionned (!!!) while it was last week-end, the 3 events in Argentina next week-end are not mentionned,...

A lot of critics from me, I know but a calendar is the most basic thing people expect from FISTF. And they are not even able to do that.

I was blamed because I was a president who was doing "all the jobs" (!!!) but how comes it's the president who asks every club to send logo, history,... Why does FISTF have a general secretary (Laurent Garnier) who is doing absolutely nothing? The funny thing is that the same person was also in the Board from 2002 to 2006 and was already doing nothing and back in January in Frankfurt, he managed to say he's a top man and was elected again. What a big big joke!

It is called democracy my friend. The majority decides. And apparently, since all the nations legalized the new board by sending reps in this "council of nations", the majority is ok with - at least - most of the things the new board does.

Panagios in democracy the elections are legal. I am not sure that last elections was legal.
I am not also sure if the majority is ok with BoD. But i am sure that the majority really don't care to fight for the good future of table soccer.
Vincent did many wrongs in past but he lost his position no for his mistakes but because they dream his chair and his power.

panagios wrote:And apparently, since all the nations legalized the new board by sending reps in this "council of nations", the majority is ok with - at least - most of the things the new board does.

Sending representatives to the Council is not in any way legislation of the board. The Council is independent of the board, and can make decisions regarding the boards decisions and actions.

Also the Council wasn't the idea and proposition of the board. Even in Rain it was brought up by others than the board. Even though in some instances these things come across like they were done by the board. So it has nothing to do with legislating the board by being involved in the Council.

The Council was created to prevent the game from separating into two sides. Anyone who wasn't in Rain can have a very hard time understanding the situation there.