A new politic from fistf

I read with interest the information I have received from the FISTF the new politca in relation to sponsorship.

The FISTF has "decided" that in recent years the equipment manufacturers have "earned too much to the detriment of FISTF" and that it's time to pay.

I decided to scirvere this surgery because I think we have finally hit bottom in the concept of "lack of vision of the movement."

This idea, unfortunately it is not only the FISTF. There are many people in the movement who think that money should rain from above.

Just take a walk in a number of forums to read speeches discussing, for example, the responsibility of the Federation to find sponsors for clubs, producers who earn too much, the legendary goalkeeper discussion on business-related unique etc.

Today FISTF, (but also the FISCT offering sponsorship packages from 10,000 € ...) feel able to ask some serious money to producers, including approvals of materials already approved, otherwise they will not use in tournaments.

Without this framework (more or less accurate I do not know, is the view that I did, maybe I will say that I understand it) I wanted to make some considerations:

- The brand is perhaps FISTF 0, the FISCT 1 in the world of brands. Having product has no commercial value. Indeed, in some cases removes clients, the world OLD type.

- The FISTF or FISCT are not able to control the materials at this time. Approval and then pay a ritrovasi on playgrounds materials not approved may be for producers, reason for termination of the associations. A payment includes a contractual agreement.

- A serious approval process should also be made for the impossibility of handling. In our game do not count only measures (common mistake) but also the materials. That is, there are materials permits and others do not. (I leave then out the various processes of certification of the materials). But to be more clear if a product is approved for use as a base figure + Extreme, is not it also means that the same figure of another base or to another hard it is. And even fewer can be considered approved a base that has been smoothed, gunwale, polished or cleaned 2,000 times because a sporting fraud regarding the approval itself.

- One of the "problems" absolutely giant we are going to deal with such a step is what happens with all the material self. I think the doors not approved (I know half a dozen cases) in a non-approved (ten cases) balls, figures, replicas of goalkeepers, even I doubt that the fields on which you have played the last world has ever been proposed for be approved.

- The vast majority of players think that the CDT is a professional business. The error is sensational. The work done over the years, from De Angelis first, and here I give the credit for having made a titanic effort to push ahead with his ideas in terms of materials, cost, technical and mentally impossible to quantify, as Tecchiati after that created the first professional space, closing with Dogali, with its fundamental contribution to the research, is far above what is the economics of any business.
The proof is that no one lives CDT racing. Indeed, the% of company's business is very low. There are other products in the field CDT that can be considered a business.

- Then there are the business of low or very low level. Now we are full of people who make decals, paints the figures in payment is based, copy goalkeepers ago balloons, etc.etc.etc. The federations will get paid only if they are able to get rid of official circuits all these situations of obvious intrusismo professional if como want will require the professionalization of producers.

I close with a discussion and a question:

I do not think FISTF can decide who gains and who pays accordingly. Should no longer worry about doing things right. Concern that does not have.

The domnda: What happens if Profibase, Extreme Work and Astrobase decide not to register their products for not paying an approval that do not consider right? The FISTF automatically delete from the list of materials approved the 70/80% of the products used in the world and 99% of those used in Italy?

Sorry for the length. AND SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH.

Un abrazo para todos. And a big hugh to Vincent.

Piero Capponi

(what I answered on Facebook)

Piero, the discussion is very complicated but our sport has to remember something: without Marco de Angelis and Enrico Tecchiati, probably FISTF would have died before I became president (in the period 2000-2002) or it would have taken a very different direction (playing with Hasbro bases maybe?). Also, it is impossible now that FISTF asks homologation and money from some historic producers and partners (you mentionned ProfiBase and Astrobase but many people have forgotten Global Sports that was the first independant producer in the early 90's producing sports figures, toccer figures and the original toccer keepers). We have to be AWARE and GRATEFUL of what these people have made for table football. Without them, we would be nothing. They are the ones who opened the doors to other pdoducers such as Dogali, Flickmaster, RealSoccer,... Another thing, it was an historic rule that any product produced under the brand "Subbuteo" would be automatically homologated so therefore there is no reason that Subbuteo should ask anything from FISTF!
Long life to table football and to our beloved Subbuteo!

(A few minutes after I posted this message on Facebook, Luis Horta announced he resigned as FISTF General Secretary)

The resignment of Luís Horta is big bang for FISTF and I am curious how the public releases now will be present. As well we don´t have to forget: the position of Communication Director is since Gary Pearson resignment vacant, too.

But that´s not the topic ;-)

I don´t think FISTF wouldn´t have died about the year 2000 without people like Enrico, Riccardo and others. Of course it wouldn´t have been easier for FISTF without them....

All in all I want to point out, if a company use the FISTF-Logo for their procucts, they have of course to pay a price for that. But nothing more... FISTF, or better any FISTF BoD should always be in a big interest to cooperate with material producers as best as possible (if the contact persons are correct).

A bit of history: when there were ETF and FISA, Ganrier and Hoffmann created FISTF to have "a federation independant of producers" in order to become a real sport. So what's the point 20 years later to ask money from producers?

Admin wrote:So what's the point 20 years later to ask money from producers?

Perhaps the 'best World Cup ever' was more expensive than FISTF could handle...?

Marcus Tilgner wrote:

Admin wrote:So what's the point 20 years later to ask money from producers?

Perhaps the 'best World Cup ever' was more expensive than FISTF could handle...?

You might be correct, Marcus......

Admin wrote:(what I answered on Facebook)

Piero, the discussion is very complicated but our sport has to remember something: without Marco de Angelis and Enrico Tecchiati, probably FISTF would have died before I became president (in the period 2000-2002) or it would have taken a very different direction (playing with Hasbro bases maybe?). Also, it is impossible now that FISTF asks homologation and money from some historic producers and partners (you mentionned ProfiBase and Astrobase but many people have forgotten Global Sports that was the first independant producer in the early 90's producing sports figures, toccer figures and the original toccer keepers). We have to be AWARE and GRATEFUL of what these people have made for table football. Without them, we would be nothing. They are the ones who opened the doors to other pdoducers such as Dogali, Flickmaster, RealSoccer,... Another thing, it was an historic rule that any product produced under the brand "Subbuteo" would be automatically homologated so therefore there is no reason that Subbuteo should ask anything from FISTF!
Long life to table football and to our beloved Subbuteo!

(A few minutes after I posted this message on Facebook, Luis Horta announced he resigned as FISTF General Secretary)

From an economic point of view FISTF has the right to ask for a "homologation fee" from the producers.

Both sides have an advantage: FISTF has the advantage material is developped and the retailer/producers have the advantage they can sell their material because FISTF organises a circuit.

As we all know the sole material isn't worth the price we players have to pay, BUT: if I calculate not only the material but also the developping costs ..... and - to be honest - the procucers will never ever sell large quantities unless they are going to produce mass material ....

Wtahc the percentage of ASTROBASE or PROFIBASE stuff sold to FISTF players and you will understand these company could not survive with the "pro" players only...

fistf took the wrong way before many years so now we arrive in a wrong end.

who cares yet? The end (wrong or right) is end.

money is more important than the game.

Players fee, clubs fee, producers fee, transfers for money, free tickets, illegal keepers for profit.

But the end is for game no for money. Age average is 40 years old and the people who keep the chairs were not famous as players.

we sold the game to everyone who gave promises. But i prefer game than promises.

good night

Kostas, the game wasn't sold to people who made promises. The game was bought (literally, I assume by the rumours from Madrid) by little people who play politics and crave power even in a tiny (and evidently quite sad) world like FISTF.

Again we are in a discussion where the problem is the start and the end.
I agree on it that the producers should pay for homologation of their material, that was already a discussion in 2010 and before, but the prices are the main point.
I think that the prices are not realistic and much too high in the current situation of FISTF. In my opinion the value of the brand called FISTF is not existing at the moment.
Before asking such prices FISTF needs something called Marketing, which is not existing for the last 20 years honestly.
The producers don't need an advertisement for the active players, because they already know them. The rest is not existing. We haven't media coverage at most events. If so it is not valuable for the producers to have one article in a newspaper in a country once a year. FISTF is not existing in media.
I'm curious to see what will happen, if Astrobase or Profibase or Extreme Works won't pay for the homologation of their material, is FISTF ready to ask all the players, who play FISTF events with the material of that producer to throw away their material and buy new material?
FISTF should think about it what will happen, if the associations won't follow the FISTF guidelines and players are allowed to use non homologated material at national events. We already have some kind of parallel worlds between FISTF events and national events, I don't think this is positive.
How many tournaments are valuable for the producers to go and offer their products there? Does the FISTF Board know the numbers of players who play FISTF tournaments at the moment? Finally there are only 4 or 5 events out of 70 every season where it is interesting for a producer to offer his products.
Those events have to bring 1000 EUR plus travelling costs for every producer that it is valuable for them to pay that money to FISTF. There won't be left much income for the producer.
They raised the taxes, now they ask a lot of money from the producers. When does FISTF start to look for "real" sponsors?
In my opinion the most important project of FISTF actually should be to support the associations for relaunching Subbuteo in the countries. There is absolutely no information about the actual situation of that project. This is the only chance in my opinion.
How is it running in those countries where it is already sold again?

As Kostas stated right, there are many "old" players and only a view young players, we can see that in the numbers at FISTF tournaments for many years now.

The rest of the things depends as always on the different thoughts of different people. There isn't existing a board which will satisfy 100% of the players, some think they need to be heard more than others. If the Marketing Director is vacant or not isn't interesting for 95% of the players. It isn't interesting too, who is the president or if we need elections or not. Of course the board didn't form the right way in my opinion too and I agree on the thoughts here, but finally it is not interesting for most players and/or associations, so it is no problem for the board to ignore those thoughts.

I don't think that the actual situation is a result of decisions taken before 2010, but of course I can be wrong. When I remember the discussions before 2010 I can only say we seem to be still waiting for the right people for the so called chairs. Many who complained before 2010 tried their luck, but as it seems nearly all of them failed out of different reasons. I don't ask for an explanation, because I don't think I will get one.

Heinz