OLYMPIA CS complaint

maxischn wrote:sadly this is the first communication ever done by the communications director, and the only thing he says is that we should just shut up.....

well i'd say he should just resign from the BoD first and never come back and try to get his own business done, before destroying tablesoccer for the rest of us as they have done within the last few months already


(personal opinion)

Just repeating what maxischn wrote, only with a bit enlarged font to help those who have problems with their sight.

You were right that something was not ok, as it seems, but you are neither a lawyer nor you are a greek court. Of course the board could take your advice, but did you ever think about it, what it would have meant to ban a legal association or to interfere in a maybe legally elected board in a country, and we would be wrong?
I'm sorry, but honestly I feel better with the actual situation (i know that sounds hard for those who suffer and wait for the next decision of the court), but in the end it is the best way and I really hope that this story will be finished soon by the court's decision.
You wanted to create another "association" for all those players who didn't want to join PATFAP and you wanted the FISTF Board to accept that association as a second official one of Greece. A look in our statutes tell me that it is not possible to accept another association in Greece. That was the reason why we refused your advice in the end. Your hope was that people who support the PATFAP would join the UNION.
The only difference maybe would have been that the UNION wouldn't exclude anybody from playing even if they wouldn't be "member". At least I hope that, but on the other side i fear problems of playing together would be the same.

I didn't want to warm up that story, but you point it out very often when we are talking about that situation.

Heinz

Janus_Gersie wrote:

von K. wrote:The court decision that is the latest has to be accepted until it's maybe reversed.

That was exactly the point we already were faced with in late 2008. But the old board didn't want to decide about consequences.

By the way: the court case was in 2009 but at the end of 2008 I was already sure (and proofed it !) about "discrepancies".

Janus

Heinz Eder wrote:You were right that something was not ok, as it seems, but you are neither a lawyer nor you are a greek court. Of course the board could take your advice, but did you ever think about it, what it would have meant to ban a legal association or to interfere in a maybe legally elected board in a country, and we would be wrong?

I don't have to be a lawyer in that case. I put on the table proofen records and files ... and yes, I thought about the consequences of having ONE affiliated association. Regardless from who is legally or not the board denied a decision hiding behind the court case. It was the easiest way to go, not the best ...

Heinz Eder wrote:I'm sorry, but honestly I feel better with the actual situation (i know that sounds hard for those who suffer and wait for the next decision of the court), but in the end it is the best way and I really hope that this story will be finished soon by the court's decision.

Hmmh, sounds really strange. Because as long as we don't have the court's decision we have to face once or twice per year with upcoming problems (see Olympia issue).

Heinz Eder wrote:You wanted to create another "association" for all those players who didn't want to join PATFAP and you wanted the FISTF Board to accept that association as a second official one of Greece.

Slightly but important correction: it was the will to create another association, not a second official. This is important because FISTF gave the provisional membership to the second one.

Heinz Eder wrote:A look in our statutes tell me that it is not possible to accept another association in Greece. That was the reason why we refused your advice in the end.

A look in the statutes tell me that we can accept ONE association. And that was our intention. My advice was never to accept two associations. And I have to correct you: the board didn't refuse my advice. It was put into reality ... as you may remember. It was YOU later accomplishing facts in April 2009 sending the nomination sheet for the WC 2009 to the non-affiliated association.

Heinz Eder wrote:The only difference maybe would have been that the UNION wouldn't exclude anybody from playing even if they wouldn't be "member".

... Regarding the current situation of Olympia a very important fact .....

Janus

Janus, you forgot to tell, it was not the plan to create a new association in general. "The Union" was created to be only a temporary "players pool" including PATFAP for all greek players as long as the problems with the not legal elected BoD wasn´t solved. Not more, not less. And BTW: with no membership fee for all players.

Nor my former FISTF BoD collegues, neither the most of the PATFAP-people realised the change to find in that way the solution for the Subbuteo in Hellas to join together again. The rest ist history...

Janus_Gersie wrote:A look in the statutes tell me that we can accept ONE association. And that was our intention. My advice was never to accept two associations. And I have to correct you: the board didn't refuse my advice. It was put into reality ... as you may remember. It was YOU later accomplishing facts in April 2009 sending the nomination sheet for the WC 2009 to the non-affiliated association.
Janus

At last, the truth becomes to be known. FISTF had officially accepted Janus suggestion and YES, Fistf had provisionally recognised UNION instead of PATFAP. That official decision was overturned "de facto", by Heinz's and Vincent's decision to keep official communication with PATFAP instead of the Union.

Janus you hopefully correct that too, like you corrected me

drastis wrote:

Janus_Gersie wrote:A look in the statutes tell me that we can accept ONE association. And that was our intention. My advice was never to accept two associations. And I have to correct you: the board didn't refuse my advice. It was put into reality ... as you may remember. It was YOU later accomplishing facts in April 2009 sending the nomination sheet for the WC 2009 to the non-affiliated association.
Janus

At last, the truth becomes to be known. FISTF had officially accepted Janus suggestion and YES, Fistf had provisionally recognised UNION instead of PATFAP. That official decision was overturned "de facto", by Heinz's and Vincent's decision to keep official communication with PATFAP instead of the Union.

Heinz Eder wrote:Janus you hopefully correct that too, like you corrected me

drastis wrote:

Janus_Gersie wrote:A look in the statutes tell me that we can accept ONE association. And that was our intention. My advice was never to accept two associations. And I have to correct you: the board didn't refuse my advice. It was put into reality ... as you may remember. It was YOU later accomplishing facts in April 2009 sending the nomination sheet for the WC 2009 to the non-affiliated association.
Janus

At last, the truth becomes to be known. FISTF had officially accepted Janus suggestion and YES, Fistf had provisionally recognised UNION instead of PATFAP. That official decision was overturned "de facto", by Heinz's and Vincent's decision to keep official communication with PATFAP instead of the Union.

Janus would then have to correct himself, because I agreed with what Janus said:

that FISTF had granted provisional recognition to the UNION by an official statement in late 2008, which FISTF NEVER took back. Strangely, despite that decision, by keeping communication with PATFAP YOU accepted PATFAP BoD as your loyal partner.

It would be simpler for you to say "Sorry, I was wrong", instead of trying to distort facts.

One week without new comments . Everybody stop thinking Olympia's problem.
But nobody solve the problem yet. Mr Catania follow Koutroumanos steps and he asked by Olympia's players to pay (about 2000e) for to play in champion league and in international tournaments.

Do you know how he wants to spend our money? Koutroumanos and his partner papakonstantinou rent a big hall and they will put inside new tables. Koutroumanos as greek president decide ALL NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENTS to take place in this (his) hall. All the rest clubs cannot organise tournaments. So they will spend the tournaments fees and the year fees for to pay their hall (rent, etc).

By this way they wants as soon is possible to destroy the rest greek clubs. First target is Olympia because we understand his plan from the first time. We want to play in CH.L. of Mattesburg but he prefer to "send" only one greek team than two, because we are the second.
The same happened last year -he sent Haidari's name as participation in Tournai- but Haidari didn't want to take part.

He changed the dates of greek G.P. and he is the new competition manager.

Please we ask the help of council because Catania protect Koutroumanos. We cann't find solution with FISTF and patfap so if you don't help us we will stop playing in all tournaments.

Thanks.

This is a situation we can never imagine in other countries. Only in Greece this is possible...

I think that we saw about the same situation the last month in FISTF.
I am sure that we will see worst situations in future...

i think this situation has come to a dead end. all europe associations and clubs must help, so that some people can do what they should be encouraged to do : play subbuteo and enjoy it. The OLYMPIA team are not allowed to do that because they declared that the greek president was illegally elected. and it obviously seems they were right as they won the court.
i dont understand what all these councils and boards and associations, or whatever else you want to call it, stand for when they cannot protect someone's right to play in tournaments and enjoy the game. the OLYMPIA team conflicted with the person in charge and to that argument the greek courts says they are right.
i think its high time some serious action to be taken. to me its obvious that political decisions must be kept outside table football courts.

New message today by greek president. He asked 90e by all players who wants to play in national divisions (max 34 matches) of course in his hall !!! The greek table soccer now belong to rich people.
If we haven't 500e to spend for Greek tournaments then we cann't play.

HIS SLOGAN IS: NO PAY, NO PLAY
PAY MORE, PLAY MORE. fantastic promotion...