EGM Madrid 26 - 27 February

MassiveAttack wrote:I don't understand, really: I don't understand ... and all this for the "pupazzetti" (the little plastic man) ?
Bah!!! ...

This is true but there are people who believe in the power of honesty!

There are more honest people than you can immagine: but honesty is relative at country where you are born or where you living ?

however, only 24 hour and the ranking is back: men of good wish there are forever ...

Sorry, whoever you are, but that post is really disgusting, you compare the situation of FISTF with a situation in a country where people are killed for fighting for their rights. You use a picture of a dictator who let people shoot on his own population and use the name of FISTF in combination with that person.
This is the absolute lowest level of communication.

Kaitsu wrote:

I also condemn this image.
When we go beyond the limits we become worse than those we criticize.

Heinz Eder wrote:Sorry, whoever you are, but that post is really disgusting, you compare the situation of FISTF with a situation in a country where people are killed for fighting for their rights. You use a picture of a dictator who let people shoot on his own population and use the name of FISTF in combination with that person.
This is the absolute lowest level of communication.

I agree,

somobody told me that this was in the facebook page of Vincent Coppenolle this morning (it has been printed and certified).
Unfortunatelly it force us to proceed for racism and offences in the appropriate way.

I don't have an account on facebook.
It doesn't change my opinion about that poster.

I feel very sorry about that.

giufaz wrote:

Heinz Eder wrote:Sorry, whoever you are, but that post is really disgusting, you compare the situation of FISTF with a situation in a country where people are killed for fighting for their rights. You use a picture of a dictator who let people shoot on his own population and use the name of FISTF in combination with that person.
This is the absolute lowest level of communication.

I agree,

somobody told me that this was in the facebook page of Vincent Coppenolle this morning (it has been printed and certified).
Unfortunatelly it force us to proceed for racism and offences in the appropriate way.

Sorry but this image was circulating before I used it and I took it from the funny side. I understand some people have no sense of humor or can feel offended but once again, very disgusting behaviors happened int he last few days and there is a lot of frustration.

We have blamed Catania for many bad things he did but it seems some other people feel free to do the same and it's not acceptable...

What do you mean? But are you talking about? You are insane, I thought we could talk ... but it is impossible!

I mean I understand the picture can look shocking.

But what Capponi has done is even more shocking. Did he apologize for what he has done?

When he writes on the italian forum that he was banned from this forum (and he knows he deleted his account himself), he's lying and looking for the "Calimero" because the "big bad Coppenolle" deleted him (!!!)

What he admits he betrayed Markus Jurik, he doesn't even apologize.

When he was in charge of collecting votes, he never answered to say if the vote from Finland (sent by post) arrived so that Finland could not vote.

Capponi asked "giufaz" to come as a neutral lawyer (to me it was already a joke to take an italian lawyer) and at the end, "giufaz" was voting for Malta. Why did "giufaz" not give the vote of Wales, which was probaly very different? Did Capponi apologize for that?

When he said he would never be candidate, then changes his mind and asks me to be "marketing director" (which I agreed) and then says he will not be candidate for anything because Belgium will not vote for De Francesco as sports director, he's doing blackmail in public (I pubished all messages). Did he apologize for that?

When after that, once it's too late to change opinions because all associations had prepared their votes, he announces he's candidate for president and most association are not aware of it, is it fair? No, it's totally unfair. Did he apologize for that?

When he says that "without Italy, FISTF is nothing", he's proving all his arrogance. Did he apologize for that?

Whe as an organizer of the meeting, he's supposed to make sure all nations vote, he doesn't care about the votes of Finland, Austria, Greece (it was great for him to say Kechris's and Drazinakis's papers were illegal) and then forget to ask the vote for the 2nd round from Portugal and the Netherlands, is it fair? Did he apologize for that?

Sorry but I don't even mention everything.

Even if Piero does a good job, he will never get respect because he lied, cheated, manipulated people.

Even if some images are not nice, what he gets now is what he deserves.

I believe in justice, honesty, fair-play,... it's very important to me.

If you can not understand that and prefer to support people who are unfair, cheating, liing and only defending their own interests, it's fine.

But just one question: what did Italians do for table football outside Italy? I have my answer...

we have full mons togheter other nations, for example, and other tournaments, including Helsinky and Berlin, and Malta's, and France, and Spain, and ... I continue? Pay our quote, put the bases to organize at better the tournament, discuss around rules e materials, make a promotion with children e adults ... I continue?
Vincent don't ask this arguments to me, because you know my work and of other people in Italy, and you know this is good, if I talk about sport or about the game.
This is only a politics war: where a part win and other part lose, but in this battle (attention not war ...) win idea and programs explained in forum.

Admin wrote:
...Capponi asked "giufaz" to come as a neutral lawyer (to me it was already a joke to take an italian lawyer) and at the end, "giufaz" was voting for Malta. Why did "giufaz" not give the vote of Wales, which was probaly very different? Did Capponi apologize for that?
...

First the truth: Capponi asked me to come and Catania confirmed.
After this, Catania didn't come anymore and the invtation for me expired (Piero couldn't decide alone: he wasn't the President of the congress).
Therofore I decided to don't come in order to avoid a discussion on the matter "is he legitimate?".
I communicated this to Piero and he told it to De Francesco.
He called me and he told me that he was delegated from Malta but he could ask Malt for changing the delegation in order to give me a clear title to participate to the meeting as objective lawyer. Apart from the result, in fact, he was caring for ending the mess and hving an electral session free from claims. I accepted wth the condition of having the chance to express in truth my opinions everytime I deemed it necessary (it is nonsense to torture law for table futball).
I also explained that I would have expressed the wil of Malta according to its desires. So I had the chance to participate. And to be honest as I am: I also took position against Stefano on different issues (as your lawyer can confirm). The alternative would have been having De Francesco delegated from Malta and me home (maybe better for me, the same for the election).
If you are wrong on my position I can guess you are also on the rest and it is a shane Piero cannot defend himselve (he posted on Italian forum that he deleted the account as he was stopped from intervening in the forum under a technical point of view for a day).

Now the advice: when you say that it is a joke to take an Italian lawyer as by definition we cannot be good lawyers or neutral, you are once again offending Italians, Italian lawyers and me. In a public forum this is a crime and I'm already in contact with a Belgian lawyer to evaluate your conduct. You are forcing me to act. I think that Massive Attack is righ: your conduct is insane just as you cannot accept you lost. I can udersand your frustration, but you are passing every limit: to offend peple and to be racistis is a crime even in Belgium.
Try to get the chance to apoogize as I really would prefer to avoid you to pass next time discussing in a Belgin tribunal if you are a racist.

giufaz wrote:

Heinz Eder wrote:Sorry, whoever you are, but that post is really disgusting, you compare the situation of FISTF with a situation in a country where people are killed for fighting for their rights. You use a picture of a dictator who let people shoot on his own population and use the name of FISTF in combination with that person.
This is the absolute lowest level of communication.

I agree,

somobody told me that this was in the facebook page of Vincent Coppenolle this morning (it has been printed and certified).
Unfortunatelly it force us to proceed for racism and offences in the appropriate way.

I saw this picture on the internet and the idea came in to my mind after i've seen people mentioning Gaddafi in this forum related to this circus from last weekend. I still think that it's funny tho..

So if you are seriously trying to get something out of this "racist" -thing, i'm up for it. As i (and everyone else) know(s) that your threats about legal acts agains this "racisms" is equally convincing as Ahmed the dead terrorist shouting "I KILL YOU!". If you don't know Ahmed, check it from Youtube, here's link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouDRDzqTu0M
In short, don't make threats you are not able to claim.

Funny thing, you are blaming and flaming me about the way i describe my feelings, just because it bothers you. The reason why i'm reacting this way is only caused by your "political" acts and the way you see democracy, honesty and justice and i'm definitely not alone with my feelings and thoughts. I just feel sorry for the rest of the italian playerbase if they have to play by yuor rules.

Here's another Youtube link for you, listen those first senteces and you'll get the idea..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBg1Z3Qsm1c


ps. Sorry Vincent for using your forum for this conversation, but i bet i wouldn't get change to write in italian forums

MassiveAttack wrote:we have full mons togheter other nations, for example, and other tournaments, including Helsinky and Berlin, and Malta's, and France, and Spain, and ... I continue? Pay our quote, put the bases to organize at better the tournament, discuss around rules e materials, make a promotion with children e adults ... I continue?
Vincent don't ask this arguments to me, because you know my work and of other people in Italy, and you know this is good, if I talk about sport or about the game.
This is only a politics war: where a part win and other part lose, but in this battle (attention not war ...) win idea and programs explained in forum.

Hi Gianni,
yes, you are right. It is only a politic thing and the most of all missed the focus on the game and the friendship. It is a lot of porcellan destroyed not only within the last days. Unfortunely the new FISTF BoD is not innocent, that make it much harder. I can remember the wishes by people like Giorgos Koutis, Eric Verhagen and lots of other respected players for new and blameless people like Vesa. They are double disappointed now with the results of Madrid and the mud battle after the elections.

I can understand all frustrations, but what shall we do now? Go back to where started and act as nothing was?

Give me us a guideline what to do now. Do you have any idea...?

Kaitsu wrote:
I agree,

So if you are seriously trying to get something out of this "racist" -thing, i'm up for it. As i (and everyone else) know(s) that your threats about legal acts agains this "racisms" is equally convincing as Ahmed the dead terrorist shouting "I KILL YOU!". If you don't know Ahmed, check it from Youtube, here's link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouDRDzqTu0M
In short, don't make threats you are not able to claim.

really funny Kaitsu,

can you please send me your details, also via pm if you prefer? In particular I would like to know your Country, full name and date of birth.
I think it could be sufficient to check if also in your country racism is a crime.
Good luck

giufaz wrote:

Kaitsu wrote:
I agree,

So if you are seriously trying to get something out of this "racist" -thing, i'm up for it. As i (and everyone else) know(s) that your threats about legal acts agains this "racisms" is equally convincing as Ahmed the dead terrorist shouting "I KILL YOU!". If you don't know Ahmed, check it from Youtube, here's link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouDRDzqTu0M
In short, don't make threats you are not able to claim.

really funny Kaitsu,

can you please send me your details, also via pm if you prefer? In particular I would like to know your Country, full name and date of birth.
I think it could be sufficient to check if also in your country racism is a crime.
Good luck

If you are really in to it, contact the president of our TF association to receive the information. You can see my country and even the city i live in from my details in this forum.

To create another association with real values (and less professionalism?) is an option but I'm not sure there is enough motivation from the interested persons to start everything from scratch.

One thing is sure, I don't have sense for playing (and thus supporting) FISTF events and I think I'd better cancel the tournaments I organize under FISTF banner, too.

Kaitsu: I don't know you but your links are great.

Giufaz: You don't understand the situation enough, I think. We are in an associaion where Italy is acting with too much arrogance because they have more players but to a lot of people, we could have a Board without ay Italian (after all the FISTF Board doesn't necessarily have an Italian, a Spanish, an English and a German). The trend of the lat few weeks was bad because despite they were not candidate, Capponi and De Francesco "had to be" in the Board. None of them published any program and none of them took time to explain their views.

When they realized they would not be in the "winning team", they proposed an "agreement" (what a funy name). We know how it ended...

Its great that people who are not playing the game are destroying it! RESPECT

I am really sick of it all....... i think its better to find a new hobby and to play SubbuBullshit only for fun......

giufaz wrote:
First the truth:.....

Please don't speak you for truth.

@giufaz
By writing EVEN in Belgium... you offend Belgium and its people!
Are you a racist???

dromer wrote:@giufaz
By writing EVEN in Belgium... you offend Belgium and its people!
Are you a racist???

Of course not: I like a lot Belgium and Belgian people. The Belgian lawyer that is studying the intervention in this forum and criminal consequences is one of my best friend.
"Even" means that even if you cannot imagine that to offend Italian and Spanish per se in a racist way is a crime, it is so also (even) in Belgium.
It was, therefore, a kind way to advice you that maybe have undervalued the situation.
Having make this clear, can you now please make a declaration of love toward Italians and Spanish people? Can you please officially declare how honest and intelligent you think we are? My Belgian friend an I are really looking forward of seeing your kindest words...
Please, don't esitate...

Giulio, You clearly have no clue of the common way to use humour for talking about difficult things. This is also used in therapy. At least here it's common to make "tasteless" jokse about everything from pedofiles to cannibalism. It does not mean people like or accept those, quite the contrary, they despise and are horrified. But it is a way to deal with them.

It says a lot, that after all the things discussed you don't want to see that side. I'm sure that practically all the people here also know nice and positive italians. A generalisation which only is aimed at a few people does not make a person a racist.

But you act the way you see fit. It's your choice. I envy you a little, in fact. It would be nice to have the possibility to use courts for all sorts of things.

if you can't help yourself anymore, go to the courts! it protects the weak..... or something like that

Guys, after 25 pages of bla bla bla, insults, recriminations, sentences against Italians, Spanish and southern people, the worst sense of humor full of racism...is it possible no one of you have the courage to say in an explicit way: I'm not racist, I like Italians?
Is it possible that the maximum you can say is that also among Italians there are nice persons?
I tell you the truth: people that wan the elections did it in a fair and clear way. All the votes difficult to verify were from the opposit side, yours, but they were however accepted...
You are now trying to see the bad and the enemy were there was only people having an idea different from yours...you are exchanging your mistakes with unfairness of other people, you are blind in front of conduct of professionals who tried to help democracy mainly in your interest...finally you are insulting me as I didn't manage things in your sole interest and now also the lawyer that you sent to Madrid (fantastic and correct lawyer him too) as he didn't manage enough to have you as winners...
And you are doing this even if this mean to become worst, even racist...
You can have all a the ideas you like on elections, where in the general contest of the world situation really we spent already too much time.
What is unbealiveble to me is that no one of the users of this forum has the courage to say clearly and explicitly: I am not a racist, I like people from Italy, Spain, Malta...

Just try to watch things from the other side. If you were not in Madrid and you were not italian, would you accept the idea that someone who was not candidate and who did blackmail the days before the elections became candidate with 6 votes (!) out of 16, being in a minority?

I have many opinions about Piero Capponi and even if I wrote this many time, I will always remember the world cup in Germany when he was encouraging young players to have an unfair behavior (causing free kicks on purpose every time the opponent was in the shooting zone). That day, I just realized that if it's the way these people use table football to educate their young players, it's totally meaningless to continue to work for his game...