10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

Quite absurd.
Who stops this madness?

10 teams from a country is not possible, the maximum number is 8, or do they ignore the rules!?

Hopefully those people who complained in the past about 5 or 6 teams from the same country in the EC.
Finally it is not important which country has that number of teams. As it seems it isn't important anyway anymore.
Actually it is possible to have 4 teams in the CL and 4 teams in the EL, finally there is no difference in the percentage of teams in the competitions. People complained about 20% teams from the same country, but now the situation is the same, because there are 4 teams in a starter field between 16 and 24 only.
In the past we had 5 or 6 teams from the same country in a starter field which was between 25 and 32.
In the end it was the only way to get 2 competitions, if you reduce the maximum number all countries would have less teams qualified and finally the competitions need to be played with 8 teams.
Maybe some people don't notice that it is still the same but in another system.

Thossa wrote:Quite absurd.
Who stops this madness?

Today I notice: 18 teams of Greece and Italy wanna play the "Mediterranean Cup". Congratulation FISTF. Well done. Do I forget to mention some teams from Malta, sorry. How much teams will be it in total... 24 or 25? How bizarre, how bizarre....

An I remember all the critics back in Tournai 2009 when we put Verviers and Temploux to replace 2 late drop-outs to keep 28 teams (in one cup). That's soooo ridiculous!

It is like in politic.
Most people can't remember anymore what they complained about before they were elected!?

The others who discussed on a forum have to be quiet now, because there isn't any forum existing where they can discuss with the FISTF Board. Everything's better now.

Heinz

All forums are dying slowly.
Who's interested in the future of the game?
The president is a crook but nobody cares about that!

I reckon the UK nations would support an EGM if one was called...

Are there again some people having some good ideas like in january 2010!?

wish you all the best for the next EGM.

Heinz

BREAKING NEWS: Laurent Garnier's new book will be called "how to cheat at elections"

Many of your comments are right. But who is responsible for no german french holland portugal spanish british teams?
the mediteranean countries? no
why greek teams travel to europe but the europe teams don't travel to greece?
because there 100 tournaments closer cheaper without strong italian greek and italian teams.
who create the monster of 100 tournaments?
who create the monster teams with full foreign proffesional players?
who lost the oportunity to use total soccer and new subbuteo as main sponsors for the future?
who help wrong persons and ban the others because he care only for elections?
who allow new illegal equipment only producers profit?

WHO CLOSE THE EYES IN FUTURE? THE FIFA AND PRO CHANGE EVERY YEAR AND THE RULES IN TABLE SOCCER ARE THE SAME THE LAST 20 YEARS.

SUBBUTEO IS TOO BIG FOR APARTMENTS. SMALLER PITCH WAS A GOOD SOLUTION. THE RULE HAS MINIMUM PITCH 90 X 60. THIS TABLE IS OK FOR A ROOM. BUT A 120 X 80 IS NOT GOOD SELECTIONS FOR PARERNTS WHO WANTS TO BUY SUBBUTEO TO THEIR KIDS
THE RULES FOR MOVING BALL MOVING BLOCKS ARE LIKE EINSTEIN RULE FOR NEW YOUNG PLAYERS. MAYBE IS A BIG CHANGE BUT A RULE LIKE FLICK-STOP-BLOCK-STOP IS NOT SO AMAZING BUT IS VERY SIMPLE IF WE WANT TO HAVE MANY NEW PLAYERS.
AFTER THESE (SMALL PITCH, SLOW GAME) WE MUST SELECT SMALL BALL AND REALISTIC SMALLER KEEPERS.
EVERYBODY WILL THINK THAT THE COST FOR NEW EQUIPMENT IS BIG. BUT SMALL PITCH COSTs THE SAME WITH A SET OF BASES. A KEEPER AS THE FEE OF A TOURNAMENT. THE BALLS AS A BOTTLE OF WATER.
If totalsoccer or new subbuteo support the new idea then the cost was many times smaller. But the leaders of FISTF didn't care for the future and for the game but only for chairs and elections. If the marketing department spent time to promise in big companies new rules and new style of game and the sport department created simple rules for game and strong rules for producer before five years then this time subbuteo will be alive. But presidents care only for money. No for the game. Like a restaurant owner who spend his mind for prices in menu but no for new plates.

who care for national associations? none. Many foreign players for rich teams. Portugal die. The same for england. Nobody didn't see the future? Only rules for transfers but no rules for young players.
Maximum one foreign and minimum one young per team
Central europe associations care for many tournaments because the distances are small and cheapwith car and italy association care only for italian teams. Worldcup in palermoand 50% are italians europa in greece 35% greece 35% italian 30% rest europe.

keep your eyes close. you will not see the end...

Kostas, I'm really sorry for you that you didn't/don't find somebody who will realize your ideas instead of your own in the FISTF Board.
Thankfully there seem to be enough other people who want to work for FISTF so that associations can think to call for the 3rd EGM in 3 years.
Is there any combination possible that you will give us the honour of working for FISTF?
Hopefully there will be somebody ready to take a chair, otherwise FISTF won't exist anymore. Maybe some people need to see that in reality that they are thinking a bit more about their words before writing.

Who forbids people to buy smaller tables?
The equipment is available!
When the player decides to play national events or FISTF events, they will be played on the "normal" pitches with normal rules, I don't see any problem with that. The problem maybe is existing because the associations finally don't know what/how to do. Why should we play FISTF events on smaller equipment? Do they play football on smaller pitches, on asphalt or with smaller goals because most children start playing football in those conditions?
The situation you described should be the entry or starter kit. An additional part of such a starter kit could be only the shooting area of a "normal" table, to practise shooting. Somebody who wants to play national events or FISTF events should already practise in a club on "normal" tables.

There was a rule's commission built by Stefano, as far as I know you were not part of it!? No chair only work which should be done.

One more time only populist words, which can only be written by somebody who knows that he never would take the responsibility to realize his own ideas.

PS: Maybe you can tell me the season, where FISTF had more than 100 tournaments?
Your words aren't based on any facts. Did you realize that now, where we have about 15 events less in the FISTF circuit, the number of players in total went down, so your logic doesn't seem to work. The numbers proof it, and the facts can't be ignored even by you.
Less tournaments doesn't automatically mean more players at the other tournaments.

Heinz

Kostas, you are right sometimes but in many points you are wrong. In table football, one of the problems is the way people are scared of new ideas. We could have many ideas like for instance:
- playing 20 minutes games so that tournaments can be played in less time( for instance between 2.00 pm and 6.30 pm instead of between 10.00 am till 6.00 pm);
- playing some tournaments with "original" stuff only (subbuteo, total soccer, zeugo, superfooty) but not with professional material.
- playing tournaments were all players play the same numbner of games (it means if there are 20 players you play for all places 1 to 20.

Ideas are there, making them possible is often more complicated.

FISTF had a maximum of 85 tournaments but I don't think Satellites, Challengers and Futures could be a way to "make competition" with big events. People just choose which tournaments they like to play. I was in a national tournament in Belgium on saturday and there were 60 players. Many of the best players of Belgium were not present just because they concentrate on more important events. I believe the more tournaments there are (at least the more different types of tournaments), the more you can get many players interested in the games. Some WASPA tournaments had 5 or 6 players but the players had fun and that's what counts!

Heinz is right. In less than 3 years, the number of players in the Open world ranking was reduced by 25%. Do you think it's positive? The more players in the rankings there are, the more credit we have! Associations (FISTF and national associations) must be open to as many people as possible. That's what counts!

Heinz before many years had an idea for a club with newcomers. Many people laughed but you can see olympia in W.R
Heinz before five years i was sport director and ALL greek tournaments took place with swiss system. Many people laugh and angry with my decision. 50 new players was the result but the system swiss stop.
After 5 years the greek federation decided again all greek tournaments with swiss system.
Where can buy a small table? i made a small table before five years and about ten of my friends bought one for their house.
Total soccer represantive in greece asked my opinion for more sales and i said small pitch. Big pitches no sold.
Maybe my ideas are strange but i spent many hours for them. I know the results.

Vincent i like swiss system because all the people play the same number of games. And i like 20 minutes because i can play with 3 opponents in one hour better than two opponents. But we need clear rules for unfair game (time wasted). Smaller table because i hate to see two lines with defenders and the rest of pitch empty.

Why every house have a chess but no a billiard or bowling? THE SIZE IS THE FIRST REASON. the price the second.
but chess and monopoly have the same price. But the parents prefer chess because is more serious game.
How cost a full subbuteo set? pitch table with legs goalposts and 2 good proffesional teams. 300e?
How cost ps3 with fifa? the same price. why the parents select electronic football than table football? NO THE PRICE. NO MORE SERIOUS. AGAIN THE SIZE. And we know all the parents dont love to see the kinds all the day in front of TV.

IN 21TH CENTURY MARKETING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVERYTHING. AND TOTAL SOCCER SPENT MONEY TO TAKE LISENCE BY OFFICIAL TEAMS. THIS IS MARKETING TRICK FOR COLLECTORS NO FOR PLAYERS.
CAPPONI WAS PRESIDENT NO FOR THE GOOD OF GAME BUT FOR GOOD OF HIS COMPANY. FINALLY HE FAIL.
WE NEED MORE MORE PLAYERS. FATHERS AND SONS. A TABLE FOR HOUSE NO FOR FOR SPORT HALL RULES FOR SIMPLE PERSONS AND PRICE FOR ALL.
Before 25 years borned in greece mini football 5x5. After 25 years the football players and clubs are the same number but the people who play mini football are millions in thousands tournaments. The football grounds are the same number the mini grounds are thousands.
The future ask new ideas. Peter Adolph's idea after second world war fantastic. And VW beattle was fantastic. Now we have car with clima abs esp airbags etc. And bases by plexiglass fast track pitch metal posts. We have more drivers but no players. WHY?

The solutions are simple THE DECISIONS ARE DIFFICULT

kechris wrote:The solutions are simple THE DECISIONS ARE DIFFICULT

What solutions do you have for the current FISTF BoD?
Read this:
http://sportstablefootballblog.blogspot.pt/2012/10/a-new-way-for-fistf-i-end-of-era_7761.html

The Financal Director´s office is in abeyance. The organisation and procedure of FISTF World Cup 2012 was a disaster and now as it looks it ended up for FISTF well calculated deep in the reds. I am very curious when the financal report of this years World Cup will be available.

There was a lot of money investigated in the 2012 World Cup.

How much money will get the greeks as support for CL/EL?

Since the meeting in Frankfurt (January 2010), the finances of FISTF are summarized in one word: MISTERY!

Thossa wrote:

kechris wrote:The solutions are simple THE DECISIONS ARE DIFFICULT

What solutions do you have for the current FISTF BoD?
Read this:
http://sportstablefootballblog.blogspot.pt/2012/10/a-new-way-for-fistf-i-end-of-era_7761.html

The Financal Director´s office is in abeyance. The organisation and procedure of FISTF World Cup 2012 was a disaster and now as it looks it ended up for FISTF well calculated deep in the reds. I am very curious when the financal report of this years World Cup will be available.

There was a lot of money investigated in the 2012 World Cup.

How much money will get the greeks as support for CL/EL?

IN DEMOCRACY THE ONLY SOLUTION IS ELECTIONS. UNFORTUNATELY THE ELECTIONS IS THE SYSTEM FOR THE BEST CANDITATE BUT WE HAVE DIFFERENT PROBLEM. WE WANT BEST VOTERS...

WHO CAN SAVE TABLE SOCCER? THE MORE MEMBERS OF EX BoD FAIL.
IN PAST I SAID MANY NAMES. VINCENT AND LUIS AS SECRETARY AND COMMUNICATION MAYBE ARE THE BEST. SPORT DIRECTOR A PERSON WHO HAS TRAVEL IN ABROAD MANY TIMES. I LIKE MARCUS.
PRESIDENT AND MARKETING TWO CLEVER PERSONS TO SPEND TIME WITH FRESH IDEAS. LENZ HAS THIS PROFILE. AND OF COURSE AN ITALIAN. A PRODUCER WHO CAN STOP WORKING AS PRODUCER BUT FOR FISTF. FINANCE A FAIR PERSON LIKE FRED.
IT IS SO SIMPLE.
BUT FOR BETTER RESULTS WE CAN ASK WHO WANT TO BE CANDITATE. NO LAST MOMMENT. ONE MONTH BEFORE. I WANT TO KNOW THE PROGRAMM OF EVERY CANDITATE.

GOOD NIGHT THOSSA

p.s i can propose myself but as Heinz wrote i cann't find another person to realize my ideas. Maybe because none wrote his ideas...

Es increible como Kostas Kecris tenga la valentia de seguir hablando de cosas que no conoce.

No tiene la mas minima idea de quien soy yo y de lo que hago constantemente y cuotidianamente para el Futbol de Mesa Mundial.

No ha hecho nada para la FISTF nunca y sigue hablando y hablando.

Se permite ademas de juzgarme cuando ha jugado con la camiseta con el logo de la empresa por la cual he trabajado yo y gracias al hecho que he sido yo que lo he permitido.

He vuelto al futbol de mesa en 2006 y he conseguido solamente traer el Subbuteo en las tiendas de toda Europa. Vincent me dijo, hace años que lo mejor que podia hacer para el Subbuteo era que se volviera a vender en todos los lados...ya està.

He ententado ser directivo, me he quivocado, he fallado y me he ido. Ojalà los otros "santones" hicieran lo mismo.

Ahor que trabajo aqui: www.prelios.com y www.lacasaagency.com com Director de Comunicacion y Marketing sigo ayudando el futbol de mesa patrocinando entre otros Madrid, Grosseto, Bologna, Pisa, Milano, Castiglion del Lago, CCT Roma, Lazio, etc..

Y tengo que estar aqui escuchando a esta persona que solo a sembrado polemnicas inutiles y que pretende dar leciones de vida a todos?

Por favor...

Piero Capponi

Quien sabe hacer hace, quien no sabe enseña.

Kostas, you are right that democracy should be the best way, but we saw what can happen, if the people are not grown-up enough to use that tool.
Your collection of names for a board is really nice, you are free to contact all of them to ask for their interest. Of course it would be really curious to see your own person in responsibility, even if I think i will never see that.
You are always talking about the past, do you really think that we move in the right direction when repeating things from 20 years ago? The past should have the sense of experience for the future. We can't always look back and say making this or that was good enough to have 50 players more, who know if it would work again the same way 20 years later?
I also think it is a fairy tale that people prefer chess and not monopoly, but I know what you mean. One more time you are ignoring a discussion, if somebody can lay facts on the table that proof that you are wrong, sometimes you don't seem to know what you are talking about.
You talked about your club olympia, of course you showed for 3 or 4 years that it is possible to train new players with your lot of experience you have, but with a fluctuation of 20% every year you are hopefully not talking about continuity.

Now you lost the interest?
What are the reasons for your transfer to Falcons?

Heinz

Back to the main topic, it looks like now Bormla and Mattersburg will not attend the EC...

Mr Capponi i critisize you as FISTF president. And my opinion is that you are totally fail. You retired two times by BoD AND I CANN'T REMEMBER SOMETHING special by you, as president of course.
Se permite ademas de juzgarme cuando ha jugado con la camiseta con el logo de la empresa por la cual he trabajado yo y gracias al hecho que he sido yo que lo he permitido.

No Piero. I helped to a great promo for total soccer in the better shop center in athens WITHOUT MONEY and i asked only a sponsor for our shirt. Your logo was an the shirt of club with the more players in greece. I help your company in greece.

Heinz everytime i write my opinions. More times before the end of occasions. Many times i said the future and unfortunately i had right.
I really love subbuteo but now i am 45 years old i am not rich i haven't enough time because i am working many hours the economical situation in greece is difficult and my family need my time more than table soccer.
I bored to try to change the wrong decisions. I cann't change the character of people who love "chairs". I bored fighting sick conditions in my country and in world community. Six months before i was very dissapointed and i decided to stop playing more table soccer in official tournaments.
I proved to myself that my ideas is realistic i have 31 years past in table soccer and i think now i cann't help for something better. I think that table soccer's death is very close.
Falcons asked me to restart to help for Champions league. I accepted to play for them because i like the idea to stop in a great international tournament in my country. Nothing more.
But if a player decides to stop playing that is not the same with to stop reading forums and making comments. In democracy since Voltair's time everybody is free to say his personal opinion.
Why me not?

p.s maybe my ideas is impossible to be true because the chairs support other ideas. But i am sure that my ideas are not worst than the others ideas. Because the other ideas fail so there are not worst possibility for my ideas.

Live stream:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/clcamera -Champions League Camera
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/elcamera -Europa League Camera
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/cl-el-mobile -Mobile Camera

The hall is not exactmy what we expected but ok...


From what we understand it would be something like that:

come on Vincent...
Did you believe that we will play in main hall?
Do you know that papakonst attack me before began tha matches and he sent off me with violence by hall? In front of 100 pair of eyes.
Do you know the reason?
Because i haven't license to play.
But i would not play. I was present as coach of achaioi team as member of falcons club and as fan of game.
After they gave me a paper with Koutroul signature that ALL the greek BoD decided 2 weeks before to stop my entrance in hall.
But three BoD members didn't any idea about this!!!

p.s. Fistf banned papako before few months for his behaviour in tournament but he continue taking part in tournaments!

Nothing in Greece can surprise me!

Admin wrote:Nothing in Greece can surprise me!

I will try to surprise you.
Do you know that Papako keep close the hall sunday morning for the rest teams except his team?
His teammates were training in hall but the entrance was closed for the other teams! The door opened few minutes before the tournament restart.
Do you know that he changed the referees for the matches of his team?
Do you know that he changed the programm and his team the sunday played the 4 matches in the same four tables?

I confirm: Nothing in Greece can surprise me!