SATTELITE IN ATHENS THE 12-12 -2010

I did copy paste by fistf calendar

- Updated 12th November 2010 FISTF Calendar - Season 2010/11
20 11-Dec-10 12-Dec-10 International Open Belgium Brussel yes Frederic Vanton
21 11-Dec-10 12-Dec-10 International Open Spain Madrid yes Piero Capponi

I did copy paste by fistf news 314 11-11-2010

December 11 & 12
International Open
Brussel (Belgium)
Contact: FREDERIC VANTON

December 11 & 12
International Open
Madrid (Spain)
Contact: PIERO CAPPONI

BUT YESTERDAY WE INFORMED SATTELITE IN ATHENS THE SAME DATE !!!
WHAT CAN WE DO FOR THIS? WE WANTED TO TRAVEL TO MADRID.

Just stay at home

I suggest you go to Madrid. This would be the right answer.

Finally Olympia took part in both tournaments with 3 teams.
We win in Greece the first place.
In Spain we fail to qualify the group stage in goal difference because my teammates prefered don't score many times against a team of 10years childen as the other team of group.
One more problem of FISTF SYSTEM in tournaments which didn't solve yet because the sport department the last years didn't care for the real problems.
One more reason which players think very much before took part in a tournament in abroad.

p.s can everybody explain me why now the competition manager allow Olympia's players to take part in this tournament? Nothing change since I.O of September nothing change since G.P of October nothing change since Europa Cup.

So the competition manager accepted that he took wrong decision in the past three tournaments (he didn't left us to take part). I think now the disciplinary council must call him for apologie to explain why he follow different ways in every tournament. If he decide to change again opinion on the next tournament?

kechris wrote:In Spain we fail to qualify the group stage in goal difference because my teammates prefered don't score many times against a team of 10years childen as the other team of group.
One more problem of FISTF SYSTEM in tournaments which didn't solve yet because the sport department the last years didn't care for the real problems.

What should the small team think about it? They are a new club and they want to take part. If it was me, I would tell them they must gain experience before playing at very high level. But there are not so many chances to play team matches in some countries and it's a great experience for these people, even if they are just kids... It's always difficult to make the perfect choice. Anyway, I don't think the FISTF Board should be responsible for that. Sorry but when a new team takes part in a tournament, they must accept the fact they may lose all their games on a very big score.

Vincent, I think the problem is not for the kids (beginners) to lose, but for the adults (better players) to win with big scores. Many people don't like to beat children 10-0. I can easily see the problem Kostas mentioned.

The game between the teams on level points must count first, also the goals scored. And maybe if it's clear the difference of level to the 3rd team is too big, it would be better to have penalties between the better teams.

It's a difficult question. Maybe bigger groups could be the answer. Then the differences would come from the other games, too.

At least the two strong teams whould play together first. I don't see anyother solution...

one more time, only balming people without knowing the real reason.
I saw the problem and I proposed a solution for that problem when I became sports director, unfortunately not all shared my idea. In Austria we play with that rule for many years, so do you really think I didn't see the problem? Maybe you should start to understand that the sports director can't always act how he likes.
It is very easy to stop that, you only need to take the direct game between those teams with the same points before you take the scored goals in all individual games.

kechris wrote:Finally Olympia took part in both tournaments with 3 teams.
We win in Greece the first place.
In Spain we fail to qualify the group stage in goal difference because my teammates prefered don't score many times against a team of 10years childen as the other team of group.
One more problem of FISTF SYSTEM in tournaments which didn't solve yet because the sport department the last years didn't care for the real problems.
One more reason which players think very much before took part in a tournament in abroad.

p.s can everybody explain me why now the competition manager allow Olympia's players to take part in this tournament? Nothing change since I.O of September nothing change since G.P of October nothing change since Europa Cup.

So the competition manager accepted that he took wrong decision in the past three tournaments (he didn't left us to take part). I think now the disciplinary council must call him for apologie to explain why he follow different ways in every tournament. If he decide to change again opinion on the next tournament?

thx, exactly that should be first.

von K. wrote:Vincent, I think the problem is not for the kids (beginners) to lose, but for the adults (better players) to win with big scores. Many people don't like to beat children 10-0. I can easily see the problem Kostas mentioned.

The game between the teams on level points must count first, also the goals scored. And maybe if it's clear the difference of level to the 3rd team is too big, it would be better to have penalties between the better teams.

It's a difficult question. Maybe bigger groups could be the answer. Then the differences would come from the other games, too.

what is the problem?
if they drew and one team has the better goal difference in that game, both don't need to "destroy the very weak team.
with the current rules, if they draw, the first team who plays has to score as many goals as possible, the second team then has to score one more goal than the team before.
with the goal difference of the direct game before point difference in case of equal points would help a lot.

Admin wrote:At least the two strong teams whould play together first. I don't see anyother solution...

An easy solution would be to say in the individual games, the maximum score is 8-0 (for instance) but I don't see any "sport" in the world where a maximum score is possible. I'm against the rule of the 5-0 in individual tournaments and therefore I'm against such a rule in team events.

I don't like to score many goals against a beginner but beginners have to know what they should expect from taking part in a big tournament...

kechris wrote:In Spain we fail to qualify the group stage in goal difference because my teammates prefered don't score many times against a team of 10years childen as the other team of group.
One more problem of FISTF SYSTEM in tournaments which didn't solve yet because the sport department the last years didn't care for the real problems.

These are the group results:
Tiburones FM FM A 4 0 Moralzarzal
Madrid Total Soccer C 1 1 Olympia ITEC
Tiburones FM FM A 4 0 Madrid Total Soccer C
Olympia ITEC 3 1 Moralzarzal SCAD
Olympia ITEC 0 3 Tiburones FM A
Madrid Total Soccer C 4 0 Moralzarzal SCAD

Olympia was out because:
- they won 3-1 (not 4-0) against Moralzarzal SCAD
- they lost 0-3 to Tiburones
- they drew with Madrid
It's a bit easy to say Olympia was out because they didn't want to score many goals against kids...

As you say we wouldn't need such silly rules, if we would change the order of criterias.
I even would create the rule that in case 2 players in a group of 3 have 4 points the other game shouldn't count and they should go directly to shoot-out for the 1st place in the group.

In nearly every tournament it happened that a player got damaged from 2 others who needed to score goals to win the group. With the idea of Piero (it is not the finest one), we stopped that, but it would work another way around too.

Admin wrote:An easy solution would be to say in the individual games, the maximum score is 8-0 (for instance) but I don't see any "sport" in the world where a maximum score is possible. I'm against the rule of the 5-0 in individual tournaments and therefore I'm against such a rule in team events.

I don't like to score many goals against a beginner but beginners have to know what they should expect from taking part in a big tournament...

What would be the problem to realize the following order of criterias?

1. Points of the team
2. Difference of won/lost individual games
3. Won individual games
4. Lost individual games
5. Direct game(s) between teams with same points
6. Goal difference of the direct game(s)
7. Got goals in the direct individual game(s)
8. Scored goals in the direct individual game(s)
9. Goal difference of all individual games
10. Got goals in all individual games
11. Scored goals in all individual games

maybe it would even be better first to ask the number of got goals, then you also could prevent some players only to have a look on the scored goals.

Admin wrote:

kechris wrote:In Spain we fail to qualify the group stage in goal difference because my teammates prefered don't score many times against a team of 10years childen as the other team of group.
One more problem of FISTF SYSTEM in tournaments which didn't solve yet because the sport department the last years didn't care for the real problems.

These are the group results:
Tiburones FM FM A 4 0 Moralzarzal
Madrid Total Soccer C 1 1 Olympia ITEC
Tiburones FM FM A 4 0 Madrid Total Soccer C
Olympia ITEC 3 1 Moralzarzal SCAD
Olympia ITEC 0 3 Tiburones FM A
Madrid Total Soccer C 4 0 Moralzarzal SCAD

Olympia was out because:
- they won 3-1 (not 4-0) against Moralzarzal SCAD
- they lost 0-3 to Tiburones
- they drew with Madrid
It's a bit easy to say Olympia was out because they didn't want to score many goals against kids...

Looks like the results of the individual tournament of the Satellite of Athens finally arrived yesterday. Does anyone have the needed informations:
- looks like 2 teams were missing. Can anyone say if these 2 teams were:
a) Atlas TFC 2 & Blades TSC
or
b) Atlas TFC 2 & Pireas Lions 2
- the details (results) of the team event (at least the final).

Thanks.

Dear Vincent.
I wrote a post in 12 December few hours after the end of Madrid open.
I was not in madrid and i took informations by phone.
For my teammates was the first experience out of Greece and they confused because they thought that in last game Madrid wanted and finally scored many goals.
My comment was wrong because i took wrong informations and i accept and i apologie for my wrongs.
But i insist that is not good for the game the high scores between a team of men and a team of kids.
The system is wrong and nobody look for a fair solution.

Dear Kostas,
I posted my solution even in that thread!?

Heinz

kechris wrote:Dear Vincent.
I wrote a post in 12 December few hours after the end of Madrid open.
I was not in madrid and i took informations by phone.
For my teammates was the first experience out of Greece and they confused because they thought that in last game Madrid wanted and finally scored many goals.
My comment was wrong because i took wrong informations and i accept and i apologie for my wrongs.
But i insist that is not good for the game the high scores between a team of men and a team of kids.
The system is wrong and nobody look for a fair solution.