Re: 10 teams from Italy at the CL/EC

kechris Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:22 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Kostas, with approved statutes FISTF BoD even wouldn't need to take a choice.
So please don't start your story somewhere in the middle, maybe you should try to remember the start of the story.
The start of the story was a voting with a draw, and because of the non-existing approved statutes, nobody in greece knew how to handle that result. And your "ability" to find a consense in a situation, which was caused on the mistake of many previous greek boards brought Greece into the situation, didn't really work well.

NO YOU ARE WRONG BUT I NEED HOURS TO EXPLAIN IT

The Ego of some persons which was much too big to say that in the name of all greek players a solution is needed without causing troubles brought you in that situation.
No FISTF Board, no court, nothing else.
Previous greek boards and a handfull of people who were not able to respect the will of the greek members, who gave the same number of votes to 2 cadidates, who finally didn't manage it to respect their will that both should work for the greek community together.
Voting without approved rules telling who is allowed to vote, what has to happen in the case which happened unfortunately is always dangerous.

NO AGAIN. FISTF (you) APPROVED THE RULES OF ELECTIONS. REMEMBER PLEASE.

If you say that I'm drunken, you must tell me the name of your drugs to forget things partially especially those where you maybe would have to say that you did something wrong.

THIS WAS A JOKE. I LIKE VOLTAIR'S WORDS FOR RESPECT IN DIFFERENT OPINIONS. WE HAVE TOTALLY DIFFERENT OPINIONS BUT I ANSWER EVERYTIME IN YOUR POSTS. THE ONLY PROBLEM FOR ME IS THAT YOU REFUSED TO ACCEPT YOUR WRONG IN GREEK PROBLEM. YOU (FISTF) TOOK THE DECISIONS. I ASKED MY RIGHT YOU HELP THE OTHER SIDE AND THE PROBLEM CONTINUE. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE NO ME. YOU TOOK DECISIONS NO ME. FOR ME IS SO SIMPLE THAT YOU (FISTF ) DID MISTAKES. AND YOU (FISTF) CONTINUE THE MISTAKES IN FISTF BoD IN FISTF ELECTIONS AND FISTF IS CLOSE TO DIE. 5 YEARS I HEARD THAT MY PROPOSALS WERE WRONG AND FINALLY YOUR PROPOSALS KILL FISTF. NO MINE PROPOSALS.

von K. Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:54 am

kechris wrote:
mikeburns wrote:

You have already told us you cheated us because the organiser messed up the draw and you wanted to finish second.

I WROTE THAT THE BELGIAN ORGANISER DID WRONG THE PROGRAMM. YES WE PREFER TO FINISH SECOND

You lost deliberately to the Belgian team,

WE PLAY WITHOUT TARGET. WE WERE QUALIFY

all the scores were like 4-0 and 5-0!

LIES. 2-1 1-0, ASK THE RESULTS BY COMPETITION MANAGER.

There is no way you would beat us 3-0 or 4-0 then we beat the belgian team and then you lose 3-1
to the belgian team, absolutely not one chance! You have told me on more than one occasion you did this on purpose so dont change your story!

I DIDN'T EVER CHANGE THE STORY. YOU CHANGED IT.

You keep giving different stories, another one was that Lazaros made you lose on purpose. Another story was that you dont earn much money in Greece and your team had to whatever they could to play as many games as possible! What sort of joke is this??

I DON'T UNDERSTAND. WE THOUGHT THAT THE SECOND PLACE WAD EASIER OPPONENTS IN NEXT ROUNDS. I DIDN'T SELECT THE SYSTEM.

Kostas, did you follow the London Olympics? And do you consider Badminton a real sport? I did and I do.

What happened was that several players, including the doubles favourites, were disqualified from the tournament because they lost on purpose in a similar situation. And some of those players were given long bans by their federations.

Sport is sport. And in sport you shouldn't lose on purpose. The proof came in the Olympics, if you need it. It's called sporting fraud, even if no gambling or money is involved. This kind of behaviour is why TF will never be a sport.

I think this kind of thing is shameful, even if you can say the rules allow that (if FISTF is so toothless that it doesn't do anything when it happenes). Sorry, but I'd lose all my respect towards a player who would do that to me. Just like Mike has. Sorry to say it, but it is a disgusting attitude towards fellow players especially in a small game like TF. This is based on the info that your team lost on purpose.

But I will continue reading your comments about other matters without prejudice, because I see no difference in who writes things, I see the difference in what is written.

Heinz Eder Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:58 am

kechris wrote:

NO YOU ARE WRONG BUT I NEED HOURS TO EXPLAIN IT

Of course again the other one is wrong. You should try to remember how often people changed "sides" in the conflict depending on it who was in favour. No discussion only changing of opinion was enough and some people changed "sides". That happened very often. People came up and disappeared.
You always say that you are not a good diplomat, at that time you showed that you are very talented.

kechris wrote:

NO AGAIN. FISTF (you) APPROVED THE RULES OF ELECTIONS. REMEMBER PLEASE.

Who was not able to define the rules so that FISTF was needed to do that? A hand full of egomaniacs.

kechris wrote:

THIS WAS A JOKE. I LIKE VOLTAIR'S WORDS FOR RESPECT IN DIFFERENT OPINIONS. WE HAVE TOTALLY DIFFERENT OPINIONS BUT I ANSWER EVERYTIME IN YOUR POSTS. THE ONLY PROBLEM FOR ME IS THAT YOU REFUSED TO ACCEPT YOUR WRONG IN GREEK PROBLEM. YOU (FISTF) TOOK THE DECISIONS. I ASKED MY RIGHT YOU HELP THE OTHER SIDE AND THE PROBLEM CONTINUE. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE NO ME. YOU TOOK DECISIONS NO ME. FOR ME IS SO SIMPLE THAT YOU (FISTF ) DID MISTAKES. AND YOU (FISTF) CONTINUE THE MISTAKES IN FISTF BoD IN FISTF ELECTIONS AND FISTF IS CLOSE TO DIE. 5 YEARS I HEARD THAT MY PROPOSALS WERE WRONG AND FINALLY YOUR PROPOSALS KILL FISTF. NO MINE PROPOSALS.

Please could you tell me the decision I took which finally will kill FISTF after so many years now? Greece is an important country in FISTF but not the centre of the universe. Some posts ago you told me that I as sports director wasn't involved in the greek matter anyway and it wasn't my job to do that, and now I did mistakes in the greek matter? Kostas take a decision what you want to tell me, I get confused by reading your new opinion daily.

Do you see colours in your life Kostas? In my opinion you even don't know the colour grey. You only know black and white, for me it seems to be very boring only knowing those 2 colours.

You honestly said here that you cheated in Mons, BUT of course you were not responsible for it, again it is FISTF (better the board of FISTF). Good example by von K., that exactly hits the point. Another example would be if you are driving too fast and the police stops you, you only need to say, you are not responsible, and the police should send the ticket to the company which produced that car, which can be driven too fast.

Laughing

mikeburns Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:29 am

Kostas, you make me laugh.

You are a clown! clown

kechris Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:38 pm

mikeburns wrote:Kostas, you make me laugh.

You are a clown!

thanks.

kechris Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:56 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:
kechris wrote:

NO YOU ARE WRONG BUT I NEED HOURS TO EXPLAIN IT

Of course again the other one is wrong. You should try to remember how often people changed "sides" in the conflict depending on it who was in favour. No discussion only changing of opinion was enough and some people changed "sides". That happened very often. People came up and disappeared.
You always say that you are not a good diplomat, at that time you showed that you are very talented.

SORRY BUT I CANN'T EXPLAIN IN ENGLISH THE GREEK SITUATION AND I CANN'T EXPLAIN THE GREEK CULTURE FOR CHANGING SIDES. THE MAIN IDEA IS THE REASONS WHO SOMEONE CHANGE SIDE.
I LOVE DISCUSSION BUT DIPLOMAT SAYS LIES TO SUPPORT HIS IDEAS. I CANN'T SAY LIES. PEOPLE LOVE TO HEAR LIES FOR TO FEEL BETTER SO MY TRUTH IS CAUSE TO FEEL BAD.

kechris wrote:

NO AGAIN. FISTF (you) APPROVED THE RULES OF ELECTIONS. REMEMBER PLEASE.

Who was not able to define the rules so that FISTF was needed to do that? A hand full of egomaniacs.

MAYBE MANY EGOMANIACS. BUT ALSO IN FISTF. BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T OPEN YOUR EYES AND EARS. ONLY JANUS. AND YOU DELETED HIM AFTER HIS PROPOSAL.
kechris wrote:

THIS WAS A JOKE. I LIKE VOLTAIR'S WORDS FOR RESPECT IN DIFFERENT OPINIONS. WE HAVE TOTALLY DIFFERENT OPINIONS BUT I ANSWER EVERYTIME IN YOUR POSTS. THE ONLY PROBLEM FOR ME IS THAT YOU REFUSED TO ACCEPT YOUR WRONG IN GREEK PROBLEM. YOU (FISTF) TOOK THE DECISIONS. I ASKED MY RIGHT YOU HELP THE OTHER SIDE AND THE PROBLEM CONTINUE. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE NO ME. YOU TOOK DECISIONS NO ME. FOR ME IS SO SIMPLE THAT YOU (FISTF ) DID MISTAKES. AND YOU (FISTF) CONTINUE THE MISTAKES IN FISTF BoD IN FISTF ELECTIONS AND FISTF IS CLOSE TO DIE. 5 YEARS I HEARD THAT MY PROPOSALS WERE WRONG AND FINALLY YOUR PROPOSALS KILL FISTF. NO MINE PROPOSALS.

Please could you tell me the decision I took which finally will kill FISTF after so many years now? Greece is an important country in FISTF but not the centre of the universe. Some posts ago you told me that I as sports director wasn't involved in the greek matter anyway and it wasn't my job to do that, and now I did mistakes in the greek matter? Kostas take a decision what you want to tell me, I get confused by reading your new opinion daily.

FISTF KILLED BY THE MEMBERS OF ALL EX BoD. THEY TOOK THE DECISIONS THEY HAD THE POWER. MY OPINION IS THE SAME THE LAST 10 YEARS. THE BOD MUST PROTECT THE GAME NO THEIR COUNTRIES.
ALL IN PAST TOOK DECISIONS AND VOTE THEIR PARTNERS TO PROTECT THEIR CHAIRS.

Do you see colours in your life Kostas? In my opinion you even don't know the colour grey. You only know black and white, for me it seems to be very boring only knowing those 2 colours.

YOUR OPINION. I HAVE THE SAME IDEA FOR YOU.

You honestly said here that you cheated in Mons,

ONCE YOU ARE FOOL. I DIDN'T CHEAT. MY TEAM SELECT TO LOOSE. MAYBE IS NOT NICE BUT WE DID WITHOUT TO CHEAT OTHER TEAM

BUT of course you were not responsible for it, again it is FISTF (better the board of FISTF).

OF COURSE. IN ALL TOURNAMENTS THERE ARE STRANGE SCORES. BECAUSE FISTF KEEP CLOSE THE EYES

Good example by von K., that exactly hits the point. Another example would be if you are driving too fast and the police stops you, you only need to say, you are not responsible, and the police should send the ticket to the company which produced that car, which can be driven too fast.

WRONG FOOL EXAMPLE.

kechris Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:26 pm

von K. wrote:
Kostas, did you follow the London Olympics? And do you consider Badminton a real sport? I did and I do.
What happened was that several players, including the doubles favourites, were disqualified from the tournament because they lost on purpose in a similar situation. And some of those players were given long bans by their federations.

CAN YOU REMEMBER ME WHAT BAN HAD THE MEMBERS OF DANISH AND SWEDEN TEAM IN 2008 EURO?
CAN YOU ASK HEINZ WHAT BAN HAD THE AUSTRIAN NATIONAL TEAM IN W.C 1982 WHEN LOST 1-0 BY GERMANY?

Sport is sport. And in sport you shouldn't lose on purpose. The proof came in the Olympics, if you need it. It's called sporting fraud, even if no gambling or money is involved. This kind of behaviour is why TF will never be a sport.

I AGREE WITH YOU. BUT I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR WRONG RULES. IF YOU BELIEVE THAT IS RARE THE STRANGE SCORES YOU ARE BLIND. BUT NONE ASK MONEY FOR APOLOGY.

I think this kind of thing is shameful, even if you can say the rules allow that (if FISTF is so toothless that it doesn't do anything when it happenes). Sorry, but I'd lose all my respect towards a player who would do that to me. Just like Mike has. Sorry to say it, but it is a disgusting attitude towards fellow players especially in a small game like TF. This is based on the info that your team lost on purpose.

IF YOU LOST THE RESPECT FOR EVERYBODY WHO PLAYED A STRANGE MATCH THEN WHO IS OK FOR YOUR RESPECT? NO COMMENTS FOR BLACKMAIL. SO IN YOUR BRAIN IS WORST THE STRANGE GAME THAN BLACKMAIL. SORRY YOU DISSAPOINT ME.

But I will continue reading your comments about other matters without prejudice, because I see no difference in who writes things, I see the difference in what is written.

NOW YOU FIND THE TRUTH. PEOPLE MANY TIMES MAKE COMMENTS BECAUSE HAS BAD OPINION FOR SOMEONE WITHOUT LOOKING IF HE HAS RIGHT. I DIDN'T MET YOU IN PAST PROBABLY NOT IN FUTURE BUT I WILL NOT CHANGE MY OPINION FOR YOUR POSTS BECAUSE YOU DON'T RESPECT ME YET. IF YOU RESPECT THE GAME I WILL RESPECT YOUR IDEAS. IN MONS WE WOULD PLAY FAIR. BUT THE PROGRAMM CHANGED WE INFORMED THE ORGANISATION COMITTE NOTHING CHANGED AFTER SO WE PROTECT OUR TARGETS

P.S IN GREECE TOOK PLACE EUROPA CUPS. HENNUYER WHEN A BELGIAN TEAM POSTPONE ITS TRAVEL BEFORE END OF PARTICIPATIONS MUST CHANGE TOURNAMENT. TO PLAY CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. NO HAPPENED. WHEN LOUREIRO PROPOSE FOR ONE TOURNAMENT WITH ALL TEAMS TOGETHER PERE WROTE THAT A.S.H NOT AGREED BECAUSE THEIR TARGET IS THE CUP. PERE SAID THE TRUTH AND TOOK DECISIONS TO PROTECT HIS TEAM. I RESPECT HIM AND HIS STRAIGHT WAY. DO YOU RESPECT HIM FOR THESE ACTS?
MANY YEARS AGO A STRANGE SCORE CHANGED THE NEXT ROUNDS MATCHES DURING TEAM EVENT OF ACROPOLIS. HENNYUER WAS THE VICTIM. PERE WAS ANGRY AND NERVOUS BUT HE DIDN'T EVER ASK WITH BLACKMAIL MONEY. SORRY BUT I THINK THAT PERE'S WAY IS RIGHT AND THE OTHER WAY IS WRONG.

mikeburns Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:52 pm

You select to lose to gain an advantage! Therefore you are a cheat!!

You dont even understand what blackmail is so stop using the word!!

What goes on in the Kechris world?? Only madness by the sounds of things!!

With your last few posts admitting your guilt and also your crazy rants, i think you've maybe lost whatever respect (if you had any) that anybody had for you!!

Suspect

kechris Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:37 pm

mikeburns wrote:You select to lose to gain an advantage! Therefore you are a cheat!!

ΝΟ.

You dont even understand what blackmail is so stop using the word!!

I KNOW. AND I WILL USE.

What goes on in the Kechris world?? Only madness by the sounds of things!!

HOW MANY EUROS ARE 1000 POUNDS?

With your last few posts admitting your guilt and also your crazy rants, i think you've maybe lost whatever respect (if you had any) that anybody had for you!!

YOU CAN SPEAK FOR YOUR RESPECT. I DON'T CARE FOR A PERSON WHO SENT BLACKMAIL. IN GREECE YOU ARE JOKE. THE PERSON WHO ASKED MONEY.

I CANN'T REMEMBER HOW MANY STRANGE SCORES HAPPENED. BUT YOU FIGHT THE PERSON WHO HAVE THE BALLS TO ACCEPT IT. FOR THE OTHERS, SILENCE.

mikeburns Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:50 pm

kechris wrote:
mikeburns wrote:You select to lose to gain an advantage! Therefore you are a cheat!!

ΝΟ.

You dont even understand what blackmail is so stop using the word!!

I KNOW. AND I WILL USE.

What goes on in the Kechris world?? Only madness by the sounds of things!!

HOW MANY EUROS ARE 1000 POUNDS?

With your last few posts admitting your guilt and also your crazy rants, i think you've maybe lost whatever respect (if you had any) that anybody had for you!!

YOU CAN SPEAK FOR YOUR RESPECT. I DON'T CARE FOR A PERSON WHO SENT BLACKMAIL. IN GREECE YOU ARE JOKE. THE PERSON WHO ASKED MONEY.

I CANN'T REMEMBER HOW MANY STRANGE SCORES HAPPENED. BUT YOU FIGHT THE PERSON WHO HAVE THE BALLS TO ACCEPT IT. FOR THE OTHERS, SILENCE.

Not in Greece - Just in KechrisWorld!

You are confused! I said basically that i'll only accept your apology if you pay hot club the money they wasted going to that event.

That isnt blackmail! Thats just a question!

KechrisWorld sounds like a real crazy place, do you sell tickets to go there!

You cheated, end of story, thats it and now you have admitted to it everyone knows about it!! You're credibility is zero, your opinions are worthless.

There's not much more I can say!

**Admin** Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:07 pm

kechris wrote:P.S IN GREECE TOOK PLACE EUROPA CUPS. HENNUYER WHEN A BELGIAN TEAM POSTPONE ITS TRAVEL BEFORE END OF PARTICIPATIONS MUST CHANGE TOURNAMENT. TO PLAY CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. NO HAPPENED. WHEN LOUREIRO PROPOSE FOR ONE TOURNAMENT WITH ALL TEAMS TOGETHER PERE WROTE THAT A.S.H NOT AGREED BECAUSE THEIR TARGET IS THE CUP. PERE SAID THE TRUTH AND TOOK DECISIONS TO PROTECT HIS TEAM. I RESPECT HIM AND HIS STRAIGHT WAY. DO YOU RESPECT HIM FOR THESE ACTS?
MANY YEARS AGO A STRANGE SCORE CHANGED THE NEXT ROUNDS MATCHES DURING TEAM EVENT OF ACROPOLIS. HENNYUER WAS THE VICTIM. PERE WAS ANGRY AND NERVOUS BUT HE DIDN'T EVER ASK WITH BLACKMAIL MONEY. SORRY BUT I THINK THAT PERE'S WAY IS RIGHT AND THE OTHER WAY IS WRONG.

Sorry Kostas but you'd better stop telling a lot of bullshit.

kechris Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:39 pm

Vesa i read for badminton in olympic games. You have right.
But i read that the problem began by a new system for draw.
And this system will change in future.
But you can understand the difference in culture between countries.
In Spain the president of Real can give LEGAL bonus to Barca's opponents.
In other countries is illegal. I feel bad when i saw that the scottish team won but no qualified. All my teamates felt bad. We tried to explain that we hadn't any problem with them. We thought that the belgian team will won the scottish. We apologied immediately after their attack. But many years after to continue this story and to ask money for to stop i insist is terrible. Ok we took a wrong decision few minutes before a game. But to continue many years later by president of D.C is worst in my mind.

Vincent sorry but i was present when happened in greece. Pere and his family in airport return to airport with my car.
No bullshit.
Please also check facebook for europa cups to see the dialogues. If you want i can copy paste.
Please check that Charleroi inform 30 august that will not take part. The end of participations was 31 august.
If i am wrong please say the point.
No bullshit.

kechris Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:58 pm

mikeburns wrote:
You are confused! I said basically that i'll only accept your apology if you pay hot club the money they wasted going to that event.
That isnt blackmail! Thats just a question!

Like I say however, if you refund the amount of 1000 euros, 250 euros to each of the 4 guys who travelled over to that tournament then i will accept only that as a proper apology and then i will see that you are truly sorry for what happened. However, until you do that, everytime you tell people you are a good guy I will tell them that you are also a bad guy!

KechrisWorld sounds like a real crazy place, do you sell tickets to go there!
You cheated, end of story, thats it and now you have admitted to it everyone knows about it!! You're credibility is zero, your opinions are worthless.
There's not much more I can say!

After that match we asked to referee Atlas and we would have made SURE THAT WE CHEATED YOU SO THAT YOU LOST THE MATCH! Olivier Pere wouldnt allow us to referee your game though because he knew what we would do.

two parts of blackmail who mike give answers to mike's post!
who is fair? the person who asked to cheat as ref?
the person who asked money to stop call me bad guy?

von K. Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:39 am

Kostas, to lose on purpose is not the same as to give bonus for winning (Real-Barca example). To lose on purpose to get advantage for oneself is not allowed in any country, because it will always be examined as a possible betting fraud and at least a sporting fraud. For example in Italy Juventus coach Antonio Conte was condemned in court because he did not report a fixed game, and that's why he is suspended now (even if the case against him was not 100%). So, it's clear to me that at least in Italy it's not allowed to fix a result. It's called sporting fraud, because it damages third-parties (in your case Mike's team). In bigger sports you could be taken to court. And why not also here, if Mike has the proof.

(The Sweden-Denmark game in Euro 2004 wasn't fixed and everyone who saw it or knows football knows it. Sweden equalised on the 89th minute. And this equaliser meant that Sweden won the group and got to play the average Netherlands team. That goal meant that Denmark was 2nd and had to play the tournament favourites and best team Czech republic. So what exactly was the danish motivation to let Sweden score? There was none.)

I don't know if Mike Burns has claimed he is a fair person. However he does not blackmail you. It's just that he has a long memory and he has the right to bring it up (the facts) forever if he likes. As for the refereeing cheating to get even, I don't like it, but I do understand it, if they lost 250 punds per person for what you did.

However, the point is that the loopholes in the rules are for lawyers, which you say you hate. And still you act as a lawyer if you use the rules problems against ethics. If you love a game, any game, you help the rules, you help the referee, you help the game. If you use the loopholes, you destroy the game. One of FISTF's (maybe also Greece TF's) biggest problems is mistrust. And you add to that mistrust by misusing the rules. And I don't like that at all.

Let me tell you how I behave at the tables. Before Rotterdam World Cup I had never played in a World Cup. We had qualifiers in Finland to see who is the 2nd player to go along with our champion. I played the qualification final against Teemu "Zinga" Sihvola. Winner goes to Rotterdam. I knew it could be my only chance to play a World Cup. The game was tied 1-1 and I scored a wonderful and difficult (lucky) goal about 1 minute before the end. I would practically have won the game. But I made a finger foul. The referee didn't see it and Zinga didn't see it. I noticed it. So I said the goal had to be disallowed. I could have taken the goal and gone to Rotterdam blaming the referee for not doing his job, or the rules for leaving it all to the referee. But, you see, I have high values and ethics. I could never do that to a fellow player who I respect. I could not be happy playing in Rotterdam after that. I could not look at myself in the mirror, or look at my kids, who I always teach to be fair and honest even if it means losing.

I lost the match on extra time. I did go to Rotterdam then, because later we got an extra place in the individual and I even got to Rain. But at that moment I didn't know that. And I think it's even more important to be fair when the stakes are high. That's were you really see the nature of people. Not in smaller games that mean nothing.

I hope you don't take this as an attack. My only wish is that people would understand that any community works easily if all follow the rules (also ethical rules, which were in many ways developed by the greek filosofers if I'm not mistaken) and don't try to get unfair advantage.

mikeburns Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:56 am

kechris wrote:
mikeburns wrote:
You are confused! I said basically that i'll only accept your apology if you pay hot club the money they wasted going to that event.
That isnt blackmail! Thats just a question!

Like I say however, if you refund the amount of 1000 euros, 250 euros to each of the 4 guys who travelled over to that tournament then i will accept only that as a proper apology and then i will see that you are truly sorry for what happened. However, until you do that, everytime you tell people you are a good guy I will tell them that you are also a bad guy!

KechrisWorld sounds like a real crazy place, do you sell tickets to go there!
You cheated, end of story, thats it and now you have admitted to it everyone knows about it!! You're credibility is zero, your opinions are worthless.
There's not much more I can say!

After that match we asked to referee Atlas and we would have made SURE THAT WE CHEATED YOU SO THAT YOU LOST THE MATCH! Olivier Pere wouldnt allow us to referee your game though because he knew what we would do.

two parts of blackmail who mike give answers to mike's post!
who is fair? the person who asked to cheat as ref?
the person who asked money to stop call me bad guy?

For sure your tournament would have ended in the next round if we were referee!

You arent a fair good guy like you try tell everyone so stop doing it. Like Vincent says, you talk bullshit!

I am not ashamed to ask you for the money we wasted, it was your fault, you are not sorry. We had already beaten the belgian team when you played them so you knew exactly what would happen. You have never apologised, not then not now, never.

So I ask again, will you pay the money to my club?? If not then I dont want to hear from you and every time you say you are a good guy i will make sure to remind everyone you are a cheat along with the rest of your team mates from that day. It is very simple.

It is funny that Kechris is always the victim. Its funnier that the more you protest the more people know you talk bullshit! How many times have you changed your story already in this thread!?? You have admitted to cheating yet you still protest you are innocent!

This could go on for 500 pages because I know you will always have to have the last word!

Anyway, this is a boring conversation, i think everyone knows the correct situation. I'm stopping now and will slip back into the shadows and will watch more rantings of "Kechris the Innocent"

Heinz Eder Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:55 am

kechris wrote:
P.S IN GREECE TOOK PLACE EUROPA CUPS. HENNUYER WHEN A BELGIAN TEAM POSTPONE ITS TRAVEL BEFORE END OF PARTICIPATIONS MUST CHANGE TOURNAMENT. TO PLAY CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. NO HAPPENED. WHEN LOUREIRO PROPOSE FOR ONE TOURNAMENT WITH ALL TEAMS TOGETHER PERE WROTE THAT A.S.H NOT AGREED BECAUSE THEIR TARGET IS THE CUP. PERE SAID THE TRUTH AND TOOK DECISIONS TO PROTECT HIS TEAM. I RESPECT HIM AND HIS STRAIGHT WAY. DO YOU RESPECT HIM FOR THESE ACTS?
MANY YEARS AGO A STRANGE SCORE CHANGED THE NEXT ROUNDS MATCHES DURING TEAM EVENT OF ACROPOLIS. HENNYUER WAS THE VICTIM. PERE WAS ANGRY AND NERVOUS BUT HE DIDN'T EVER ASK WITH BLACKMAIL MONEY. SORRY BUT I THINK THAT PERE'S WAY IS RIGHT AND THE OTHER WAY IS WRONG.

Olivier Pere is a person to respect, because he is one of those few who respect the handbook. It is not possible to take a decision at the tournament to change the format which is fixed by FISTF. Olivier Pere is smart and experienced enough to know that. What is the relation between that story and your lost game on purpose in Mons some years ago? You covered the interest of your team by getting second in the group?
I know that there happen more strange results, and maybe we should honour it that you are honest enough to say that your team lost on purpose, but again no sorry or a mistake by Kostas Kechris, the rest of the world is responsible for creating that situation.
You say that people on FISTF shouldn't work for countries they should work for the game? As it seems you don't understand the system of FISTF. The countries are FISTF and the countries are the game. A situation described by you that the board should only protect with its views the game all around the world, is close to dictatorship, hopefully you think about that when writing such nonsense, like you do. You are wrong again Kostas, FISTF is only a roof for all countries and THEY should protect the game in their countries.
I know you will never understand that, because of that I stop that discussion too. You said you love discussion, but the only problem is that it isn't called discussion, because nobody can change your views and opinions, so it is very difficult to discuss with somebody who requests for himself being Mr. Perfect. So post your statements, we will read it and that's it, feedback isn't wished by you.

You think that i only can see black&white? In your case I can only see the colour black. Sad

**Admin** Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:08 pm

Kostas, the decision of the people from ASH is understandable. If you register for a tournament (let's say in England) to play in the veterans (because you want to reach the top of the veterans ranking) and a few days before the end of registrations there are 8 open players and 8 veterans, would you be happy to hear an Open player say "please Mr organizer, let's just have one category of 16 open players, it's much better for everyone"? Sorry but no! If you register for the Europa League, you don't want to play the Champion's League. For me it is clear it was a mistake to have 2 different european cups but that's not the point of discussion for now.

About the game you lost on purpose, for sure I remember it. I remember Mike was extremely angry. At the time I was president but I had no idea what to do because it was impossible to prove the game was lost on purpose (even if it was obvious). It was clearly against "the spirit of sport" and that day your team gave an extremely bad image of Greek table football. DON'T IGNORE IT!

At the time I had strange feelings. On one side I felt like I didn't have the balls to sanction your team for this unfair behavior. On the other side I was satisfied because there was no rule saying we can sanction this kind of behavior (so no decision meant good decision). Mike was angry against me. I had to accept it.

Please check that Charleroi inform 30 august that will not take part. The end of participations was 31 august.

So what? There would be a problem if they had cancelled on September 1. Not in this case...

Reember the EC in Tournai. 28 teams registered and it was definately the hotest Europa Cup ever. In the last minute a spanish team and Rijnmond cancelled and we took 2 extra belgian teams to keep the program with 28 teams (because it was better than 26). We just had a superb tournament and the fact there were 6 or 7 belgian teams was not a real problem.

I could also mention the EC in Gembloux years ago. At the time I played for MT Tournai and in a game against Atlas, it was a demo of the "world's most cheating team" helped with unexperienced referees. Many goals were scores with offside position or, even worse, 4 flicks from the same figure. But it seems some Greeks don't have a big sense of honor (or ethics, like Vesa mentionned).

Fair-play and honor are important values. In WASPA tournament we play in Belgium we never play with referees because we don't need them (so that when we have 8 players, it means we have 4 games and everybody is playing in every row). Should we change our rules if you once want to play with us?

kechris Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:52 pm

ok
you think that you are fair good and clever and the greeks especially me we are unfair.
Are you happy?

Vesa Vincent Heinz
Before you decide who has value to respect -maybe in finland you accept the blackmails or the referees who use his role and want to ban the one team i will you give some examples because all of you proved with your words that for you all things are white and black.

1.In rugby if a defender catch an attacker before score this a fantastic effort. In football this is freekick and red card. different game different rules same behaviour.
2.in football before many years the goalkeeper could catch the ball after passing by defender. Then was very usual for waste time. The fifa changed the rule no call cheat the defenders.
3. in chess the draw is very usual. The two players can agree for "pat" after few movings. So for you the chess is an unfair game for cheating?
4. In a knock out matches your soccer favourite team won the first game 3-1. On the second match your team loose 1-0 since first minute. And after decide to play the next 89 minutes full defence to keep the score. Are they cheating because they didn't play for win?
5. in tennis ping pong chess billiard the crowd must be silence. But in football basket volley the crowd shout to help the favourite team. All the fans are cheating?
6. in champions league the first years the teams in last match of groups select the opponent in next round. After uefa changed the system and select draw.
7. again in champion league the teams whιψη qualify play the last match of group with no the good starting eleven. Are they cheating?
8. last year teams in champion league won until 80 minutes 3-1 and finally lost 3-4. Do you hear any team to ask money for cheating?
9. in formula 1 the teams has two drivers. How many times you read that the captain asked by the leader driver to allow the other driver to be first?
10. in america they have death penalty. In asia they cut the hands to thiefs. In some countries drugs are legal and in other countries alchool is illegal.

IF YOU CRITISIZE THE PEOPLE WITH YOUR STATUS YOU ARE WRONG.
YOU MUST CHECK THE PERSONS FOR THEIR BEHAVIOUR WITH LAW AND RULES.
I ASKED MANY YEARS BEFORE FOR FIRST TIME AND I CONTINUE YET.
MAKE CLEAR RULES.
MAKE RIGHT SYSTEMS FOR TOURNAMENTS.

If you read my post for last weekend tournament in moschato i wrote that my friend didn't qualify because the two friends had a strange score. But i didn't wrote that they are responsible. I wrote that responsible was the competition manager who changed the programm and responsible is fistf which follow the same system for many years.
Because you insist to support that the behaviour of Mike is right i will give more by the blackmail

You can maybe ask Coppenolle for some of the money to pay the 1000 euros because he was FISTF President at the time and was too weak to do the right thing and kick your club out of the tournament!! He also has to accept some of the blame for what happened!

ps, Yes I did vote him, but i'm not really bothered what happens with FISTF anyway, i hope it dies now and something else starts in its place!

After he accepted to be president of disciplinary council of fistf !!!
Now i am sure that you have right. I am a mad unfair no straight person without value for your respect. No for your reasons but because i try to explain the more easy thing in world. Why?

p.s i have save 5558 mails since 17-10-2005. I can prove everything for the past. And i can prove that i wrote many things before happen. When table soccer die of all of the political correct then you can tell that i was the serial killer.

kechris Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:03 pm

Admin wrote:

I could also mention the EC in Gembloux years ago. At the time I played for MT Tournai and in a game against Atlas, it was a demo of the "world's most cheating team" helped with unexperienced referees. Many goals were scores with offside position or, even worse, 4 flicks from the same figure. But it seems some Greeks don't have a big sense of honor (or ethics, like Vesa mentionned).

YOU ARE A TERRIBLE LIAR.
THE THREE PERSONS OF ATLAS TEAM IN GEBLOUX WAS ME, PLYTAS, STAMOKOSTAS.
AND THE THREE PERSONS WAS VERY FAIR PLAYERS IN GREECE SUBBUTEO COMMUNITY.
ATLAS DON'T NEED CHEAT TO WIN YOUR TEAM AND DON'T NEED UNEXPERIENCED REF.
SHAME

kechris Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:06 pm

von K. wrote:
(The Sweden-Denmark game in Euro 2004 wasn't fixed and everyone who saw it or knows football knows it. .

Maybe must speak for badminton...

mikeburns Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:27 pm

kechris wrote:

ps, Yes I did vote him, but i'm not really bothered what happens with FISTF anyway, i hope it dies now and something else starts in its place! [/color]

After he accepted to president of disciplinary council of fistf !!!
Now i am sure that you have right. I am a mad unfair no straight person without value for your respect. No for your reasons but because i try to explain the more easy thing in world. Why?

Hey crazy guy, that was BEFORE i was on DC.

Anyway, I still think the same now. The only way forward is for FISTF to either be totally cleansed or to die and start again!

Kechris The Innocent is right as usual!!

kechris Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:56 pm

how many times travel for table soccer in abroad?
I played in 30 tournaments. With airoplane the 95% and the rest with ship.
I spent more more more money and time for my favourite hobby.
What you did for table soccer?
except the blackmail...

von K. Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:10 pm

kechris wrote:
von K. wrote:
(The Sweden-Denmark game in Euro 2004 wasn't fixed and everyone who saw it or knows football knows it. .

Maybe must speak for badminton...

Do you mean that I'm wrong?

If you do, I can tell you that I've worked as a football writer and analyst and I've written many pieces also to the biggest daily newspaper (no trash tabloid) in Finland. I know my football. And that match was never a fix, because of how the game was played and because there was nothing to win for Denmark in the end.

About the West Germany-Austria I can say that I've only read reports. And if they are true, then the teams in question have been despicable and should have been punished.

But, Kostas, the biggest question really is, how do you react if you are cheated the same way? If you like it, what's the problem. If you get angry, then why do you do it to others, then.

Let's say you lose 1000 euros this way, and are out of the competition even if you won your first game against a poor finnish team in the group, because Mattersburg decides to lose to the finnish team as for their benefit. The poor finnish team wins the group. Do you like it? Is it sport? Is it what you want TF to be?

You have responsibility for your own actions. Don't say someone else also does it, if you don't accept it, and do it anyway. Children under 10 years know that it's not an excuse for your own actions.

von K. Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:17 pm

kechris wrote:
Before you decide who has value to respect -maybe in finland you accept the blackmails or the referees who use his role and want to ban the one team i will you give some examples because all of you proved with your words that for you all things are white and black.

It's not blackmail what Mike did. Maybe it's the language barrier, but he has the right to speak his mind about facts, and he has just told you that he will do it unless he gats compensation for the loss of money. I have also written that you could be prosecuted for sporting fraud, if there would be evidence, because you caused harm to a third party, by fixing a game.

What Mike said about refereeing you out of the competition, is not right. But it's quite understandable human reaction, after what you did to them, don't you think? It's good that they didn't let them referee you.

You started it, so bear the responsibility and consequences of your actions. Without your match-fixing, do you think Mike would talk about money or say he would have refereed you out? Naturally he would not talk like this.

In Finland we say: do you jump in the well if someone else jumps there? So stop saying many others do that, too, and use it as excuse. I'm proud to say no player in Finland does it.

kechris wrote:1.In rugby if a defender catch an attacker before score this a fantastic effort. In football this is freekick and red card. different game different rules same behaviour.

That's partly why Soccer and Rugger went separate ways some 150 years ago. People wanted to play different game with different rules.

FISTF TF is same game for all.

kechris wrote:2.in football before many years the goalkeeper could catch the ball after passing by defender. Then was very usual for waste time. The fifa changed the rule no call cheat the defenders.

The attackers had the opportunity to try to take the ball. There is no limit for possession in football, because it's not possible to keep it all the game if the opposition team tries to take it away actively. FIFA changed the rule not because of cheating, but because it made the game slower and the change brought more dangerous situation near goal, thus more interesting game.

The same thing in TF is keeping ball possession. And we didn't call that cheating.

kechris wrote:3. in chess the draw is very usual. The two players can agree for "pat" after few movings. So for you the chess is an unfair game for cheating?

Some games do have different interpretations also due to the nature of the game. A tight chess game is very difficult to win without risks. However no chess player does that if he knows he is the favourite to win the game, which would be similar to your situation. Your example only applies to very tight games of the very best, when an expert can see that the game will inevitably end in stalemate (pat), because of the early positions of the figures. So it's no purpose playing it to the end.

The same thing in TF would be the last minutes of a game when neither one wants to risk too much.

kechris wrote:4. In a knock out matches your soccer favourite team won the first game 3-1. On the second match your team loose 1-0 since first minute. And after decide to play the next 89 minutes full defence to keep the score. Are they cheating because they didn't play for win?

Who is the third party that got hurt? Did they concede the first goal on purpose to lose? No, they played to win over the 2 legs.

Same in TF, if you are losing your own game in a team game, when the team is winning. You keep the score low.

kechris wrote:5. in tennis ping pong chess billiard the crowd must be silence. But in football basket volley the crowd shout to help the favourite team. All the fans are cheating?

Different sports. In TF playing with FISTF rules is said in Finland to be "playing in a protestant church" (with silence), while with finnish rules it's about as much talk and shouting you can do.

kechris wrote:6. in champions league the first years the teams in last match of groups select the opponent in next round. After uefa changed the system and select draw.

When was this? Do you mean the European Cup? Can you give an example, and evidence that someone lost on purpose?

kechris wrote:7. again in champion league the teams whιψη qualify play the last match of group with no the good starting eleven. Are they cheating?

No, they are not, if it's not forbidden (it is forbidden in Premier League to play a weakened team without valid reason, by the way). But it's not allowed to decide before the match that the weakened team should lose. They play as well as they can.

For example Parma played the whole UEFA Cup 2004-05 with a second squad, because they had trouble staying in Serie A. They got to the semi finals, so a weakened team is not necessarily a losing team.

Did you play a weakened team and lose because of that (no)? Or did you decide before the game that you will lose (you said you did)?

kechris wrote:8. last year teams in champion league won until 80 minutes 3-1 and finally lost 3-4. Do you hear any team to ask money for cheating?

That's football. If there was money involved, it's bribery, and a crime. If the result was fixed and the team lost on purpose, it's sporting fraud. Was it? Or was it just sport.

Do you think that Yugoslavia allowed Spain to win the last game here (link)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2000_Group_C#Yugoslavia_vs_Spain

No, it just happens in football.

kechris wrote:9. in formula 1 the teams has two drivers. How many times you read that the captain asked by the leader driver to allow the other driver to be first?

Team orders are allowed in Formula 1. They have been discussed, and they have been allowed. They only irritate the 2nd drivers. I don't like that, but then again, for me Formula 1 is nonsense and not a sport at all anymore, but an Ecclestone business.

The international motorsport association (FIA) can't be member of Olympic committee, because of rules like these (among other things).

kechris wrote:10. in america they have death penalty. In asia they cut the hands to thiefs. In some countries drugs are legal and in other countries alchool is illegal.

Are you saying, it's fine to do that in Greece, what you did? I'd like to see all greek players agree on that after they dropped out of a competition in that manner... Don't make me laugh. I don't think anyone thinks it's ok, if it happens to himself, which means it's ethically considered wrong.

Kostas, your examples are purely nonsense in this case. None of them had anything to do with your case. Instead you decided not to comment on the cases I brought up, which had everything to do with your case, because they were similar.

I'm tired of this kind of argumentation. It's a waste of time. Didn't they teach ethics at your school? Ethics are not written rules or laws, if you didn't know (I know you do know). And reading you over the years, you constantly bring up things that are based on ethics. And then, when ethical argumentation suddenly is against you, you decide it's just about rules, and act as an ethicless lawyer (which you claim to hate, when they are against you).

mikeburns Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:55 am

kechris wrote:how many times travel for table soccer in abroad?
I played in 30 tournaments. With airoplane the 95% and the rest with ship.
I spent more more more money and time for my favourite hobby.
What you did for table soccer?
except the blackmail...

Not sure how many i've been to, more than 30 I would say. Including going to America and Canada to play. I have also spent a lot of money on my hobby. I have NEVER lost a match deliberately to get an easier draw.

What have you ever done for Table Soccer apart from cheating?

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