De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
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Kaitsu
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De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
The easy irony of those staying at home wants to have the same rights as those who spend time and money for our sport.
The more you're rich, the more you have rights... Unbelievable mentality. It's really another proof the italian culture is too much depending on the "image" given by people like Berlusconi...
Re: De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
SecondedAdmin wrote:The easy irony of those staying at home wants to have the same rights as those who spend time and money for our sport.
The more you're rich, the more you have rights... Unbelievable mentality. It's really another proof the italian culture is too much depending on the "image" given by people like Berlusconi...
Re: De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
This is not true guys. You are being emotional
Some people are like this, others are like that, I believe it has nothing to do with one's nationality.
Some people are like this, others are like that, I believe it has nothing to do with one's nationality.
panagios- Major winner
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Join date : 2010-04-30
Re: De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
Well, the thing is that when you are in a Board, you should not say this kind of things. When you are in a Board, every player in the world should have the same importance: a top player from Italy or an isolated player in Malaysia. When I was int he Board, it was definately my philosophy to treat all players on the same level. My mistake (or the Board's mistake) was to make a difference between member nations and partner nations because it digged the hole between big and small associations and it has had consequences for the sport. I don't believe the results of the elections would have been the same if the votes of Australia, Singapore, Switzerland,... counted...
Now, if you put the money as a criteria, it becomes a huge joke. We know a Greek has "bought" the vote of Argentina and the vote of Gibraltar is just like Spain's 2nd vote. It means that because of the money, some nations have 2 votes, which is unacceptable!
An now that a Board member is taking the fact that money to travel is a criteria to give more power to some individuals is simply against all principles of democracy.
I repeat it again: till 2006, we had no problems with elections because everyone was coming with good faith. If some nations wanted to vote by letter, e-mail or phone, it was fine because it was in the interest of democracy to have as many nations voting as possible.
Right now it's too much about politics, corruption, influencing people and interpreting the rules. it's just a disgusting situation because many people forget we are just a small community playing a Board game (OK, let's say it's a "sport" if you like it).
Now, if you put the money as a criteria, it becomes a huge joke. We know a Greek has "bought" the vote of Argentina and the vote of Gibraltar is just like Spain's 2nd vote. It means that because of the money, some nations have 2 votes, which is unacceptable!
An now that a Board member is taking the fact that money to travel is a criteria to give more power to some individuals is simply against all principles of democracy.
I repeat it again: till 2006, we had no problems with elections because everyone was coming with good faith. If some nations wanted to vote by letter, e-mail or phone, it was fine because it was in the interest of democracy to have as many nations voting as possible.
Right now it's too much about politics, corruption, influencing people and interpreting the rules. it's just a disgusting situation because many people forget we are just a small community playing a Board game (OK, let's say it's a "sport" if you like it).
Re: De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
I did not like the answer myself but, I also do not like generalizations.
You know very well that they have been used for the worst of causes and never for the best.
You know very well that they have been used for the worst of causes and never for the best.
panagios- Major winner
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Join date : 2010-04-30
Re: De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
I agree, Alex, that generalisations are not always necessary, and they have to be used wisely bearing in mind the problems they have. However they are often needed to talk about things that require a general view. Practically everything has exceptions. Most people read generalisations correctly in this regard.
About nations it's a complex thing. We have the corruption statistics that indicate that in some countries it's more common. It doesn't mean all people are corrupt, or even likely to get involved. But an italian, is more likely corrupt than a dane. This is how I understood Vincent's comment.
Culture, religion and social reality also has a clear part to play for example regarding corruption. Thus it's important not to say the finns automatically are in this way better people than italians. For example, if I would be born in Palestine, I could easily end up as a terrorist. In Finland it will definitely not happen. However this does not change the fact that in Palestine there are more terrorist attacks than in Finland. So the likelihood of something like corruption appearing also in a world like TF is statistically bigger in some nations than in others. And as the majority of italians seem happy year after year with Berlusconi, it's likely that they also accept the way he does things (controlling media for example), which naturally is then accepted easier also in their own life.
All this doesn't change the fact that there are many honest people in Italy, and corrupt individuals in Finland. People should always be judged by their actions, not their nationality. Nationality and, thus, social surroundings, culture, religion etc. can not be used to justify some actions, but they can help understand them (for example Palestine/Israel).
About nations it's a complex thing. We have the corruption statistics that indicate that in some countries it's more common. It doesn't mean all people are corrupt, or even likely to get involved. But an italian, is more likely corrupt than a dane. This is how I understood Vincent's comment.
Culture, religion and social reality also has a clear part to play for example regarding corruption. Thus it's important not to say the finns automatically are in this way better people than italians. For example, if I would be born in Palestine, I could easily end up as a terrorist. In Finland it will definitely not happen. However this does not change the fact that in Palestine there are more terrorist attacks than in Finland. So the likelihood of something like corruption appearing also in a world like TF is statistically bigger in some nations than in others. And as the majority of italians seem happy year after year with Berlusconi, it's likely that they also accept the way he does things (controlling media for example), which naturally is then accepted easier also in their own life.
All this doesn't change the fact that there are many honest people in Italy, and corrupt individuals in Finland. People should always be judged by their actions, not their nationality. Nationality and, thus, social surroundings, culture, religion etc. can not be used to justify some actions, but they can help understand them (for example Palestine/Israel).
von K.- Major winner
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Join date : 2010-04-21
Location : Finland
Re: De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
What comes to De Francesco's comment, it's totally unacceptable.
There is nothing about money and time in FISTF rules regarding people's or member's equality.
I'd like to see mr. De Francesco's report which has all the players and people he comments in some way, either as supporters or enemies. The report should include (according to that comment) every persons time and money spent on this hobby (also loss of wages for wageless free time for TF), and to make it statistically comparable the report has to include persons wages, taxes, country's economy and for example price level regarding everything from food to apartments. It also has to include working hours and travelling time because of work, family structure, location, freetime etc.
To be able to say what he said, without being totally out of order, would take a comparative study that would be hard, and I guess would take a year or two, to do even for a specialist.
But as a professional in every possible category regarding TF even the slightest, I guess he already has a report like this. He just doesn't want to share it with any worm of the earth who just happens to ask...
There is nothing about money and time in FISTF rules regarding people's or member's equality.
I'd like to see mr. De Francesco's report which has all the players and people he comments in some way, either as supporters or enemies. The report should include (according to that comment) every persons time and money spent on this hobby (also loss of wages for wageless free time for TF), and to make it statistically comparable the report has to include persons wages, taxes, country's economy and for example price level regarding everything from food to apartments. It also has to include working hours and travelling time because of work, family structure, location, freetime etc.
To be able to say what he said, without being totally out of order, would take a comparative study that would be hard, and I guess would take a year or two, to do even for a specialist.
But as a professional in every possible category regarding TF even the slightest, I guess he already has a report like this. He just doesn't want to share it with any worm of the earth who just happens to ask...
von K.- Major winner
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Location : Finland
Re: De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
Nice one Vesa!
Actually I was also shocked when I read his comment. I 'd like to think-hope that his
English is not so good, because what he wrote sounds VERY BAD.
And what makes it sound even worse, is the position that he is in (Sports Dep.) and the fact
that his comment was towards not just a player, but the president-representative of Finland.
On the other hand, this shows the way some people see "democracy".
As we say in Greece, 'we are all equal, but some of us are more equal'
In the end, what is painful, is that what he said is true.
The ones with power/money are the ones who ruled/rule/will rule the world .... even subbuteo
Just accept it and do not bother any more, it is not worth it.
We can choose more important fights in life to fight for.
Anyway in the end everyone is going to be judged by his actions.
georgy- International Open Winner
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Re: De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
Shouldn't this mean that everyone should be able to vote, not just the group of friends who trevalled to Madrid?Stefano De Francesco wrote:This is important! All people should be able to vote!
Not only 14 friends that won a court case............
Re: De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
Kaitsu wrote:Shouldn't this mean that everyone should be able to vote, not just the group of friends who trevalled to Madrid?Stefano De Francesco wrote:This is important! All people should be able to vote!
Not only 14 friends that won a court case............
Kaitsu, point well made ! Sharp as a knife.
I am still insisting in changes of the minutes of Madrid. I still believe in justice and therefore some actions happened in Madrid MUST be in the minutes (e.g. did Laurent get the authorisations of representatives from Argentina, Malta, Gibraltar, Monaco and Belgium ? If yes, in order to have proper minutes, these authorisations should be part of the minutes as an attachment). There are missing so many formalised topics.
But I am convinced our new/old General Sectretary will have answers ...
Janus_Gersie- Major winner
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Location : Frankfurt area
Re: De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
Another quote worth a mention in the book "De Francesco's best comments". Coming from someone who always wants to have the last wrod, even if he's totally wrong, this is simply unbelievable!Kechris you're one of those who absolutely want to have the last word. I'll leave you.
Who has the last word does not mean he's right. In this case, you're wrong!
Re: De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
There has been so many funny posts from De F, that one could soon get a book from them. Too bad that some of the best ones got deleted
Re: De Francesco's amazing sentence on the SN forum
Kechris you're one of those who absolutely want to have the last word. I'll leave you.
So sad. I thought they'll be together for eternity. I wonder which lawyer takes care of the divorce...
Who has the last word does not mean he's right. In this case, you're wrong!
Naturally he is wrong. There is no other possibility.
No arguments needed of course...
Just adding a few days to my life with a little banter and a laugh. De Francesco's comments have added a few years already.
von K.- Major winner
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