Piero Capponi at least resigned

Janus_Gersie wrote:
Before we start to discuss the way forward I would like to know WHY he resigned. Good reasons ? Or just a rushly act ?

von K. wrote:This below is a comment by SdF in italian forum. You can use the translator, or ask in case you don't understand.

"Peccato davvero ci abbiamo provato ma è davvero impossibile.

Ringrazio Piero per le sue parole e per avere condiviso con me la sua amarezza. Altre volte ero riuscito a fargli fare marcia indietro ma stavolta la delusione e il voltastomaco accumulato negli ultimi mesi era troppo anche per me.

Riuscire a fare disamorare me verso un qualcosa che mi ha accompagnato per tutta la vita pensavo che fosse impossibile ma come si dice mai dire mai.

Abbiamo sognato insieme, sperando che si potesse mettere in moto un progetto che portasse il calcio da tavolo ad essere qualcosa di più di quello che è stato sino ad oggi. Il suo abbandono si porta con se anche il mio dato che ho condiviso con lui idee e progetti.

Ovviamente continuerò per rispetto dei giocatori, a garantire il regolare svolgimento delle competizioni, del calendario e del ranking fino a Febbraio, poi non ne voglio più sapere nulla nè della FISTF e nè della FISCT.

Giocherò quando ne ho voglia ma non spenderò più neppure un attimo per organizzare qualcosa.

Questo è anche il mio ultimo messaggio sul forum.

Saluti a tutti."

Too bad we tried but it is really impossible.

I thank Piero for his words and for sharing with me his bitterness. Other times I got him to back off but this time the disappointment and accumulated sick in the last month was too much even for me.

Disaffect able to make me into something that has stayed with me all my life I thought it was impossible, but as they say never say never.

We dreamed together, hoping that you could set in motion a plan to bring the football table to be something more than what has been until now. His abandonment if my door because I shared with him new ideas and projects.

Of course I will continue to respect the players, to ensure the smooth running of competitions, calendar, and the ranking until February, then I do not want to know anything and neither the nor the FISTF FISCT.

I'll play whenever I want but do not spend even a moment longer to organize something.

This is also my last post on the board.

Greetings to all.

hönkki wrote:Could someone now remove the bans from SN forum ?

Janus_Gersie wrote:It is easy now to blame people. But it makes no sense because it dosn't help. In their point of view they tried best and they admit they failed. We need leadership and the ability to integrate in order to pacify and reunify FISTF regardless names. We need people with a clear mind.

But on the other side they left a ship on heavy sea without taking the responsibility. It is easy to resign but what happens next to FISTF ? They did not think about the future. They just left leaving behind a chaos .... that makes me really feel angry.

I declare that the rest of the existing board (those who are doing the work right now: Freddy, Fred, Luis and even Stefano; did I forget someone ?) has my full support until new elections. Each association should follow and support FISTF.

Admin wrote:I believe the Board took some wrong decisions because their vision was to make "something professional" and the players are not ready for that. Many players think it's ridiculous to be sanctionned because their figures (that they bought months or years ago) are too short (26 or 26,5 mm instead of 27) and they never had any intention to cheat or to get any advantage.

Admin wrote:
Having a world cup in July is a HUGE mistake! The Italians don't understand it and OK, it's their problem if they can't understand the views of other people, but we need to make clear JULY and AUGUST are really bad periods to host world cups.

Admin wrote:
I also believe we need to stick to the essential. There were many promises, huge promises to make something huge at the WC and the EC but almost all comments I read about the EC in Slovenia are telling "it was the worst Europa Cup ever". No scoreboards, results never put in the hall, all announcements in Italian (is it an official language or what?), no drink & food available in the hall, poor presentation on friday (with U18 players not allowed to go in!),... Also, all the media coverage seemed to be poor. And there won't be new players or clubs in Slovenia. So why was there a tournament in Slovenia? It's just a way to say "it's not in Italy" and nothing else. It's ridiculous...

Admin wrote:
So I think we must stick to the basics: easy communication (newsletter, website...), as many tournaments as possible, as many nations involved as possible (in the last 2 years almost all activity outside Europe disappeared apart from Argentina, Brazil and Singapore), easy rules, not too professional attitude, flexibility,...

Admin wrote:
Some comments said "the community is not ready to take things in a professional way" but the reality is more "many players don't want to be like Italians and just and to have fun."

Heinz Eder wrote:Hi Janus,
what are the open points that could create a chaos in your view?

Heinz Eder wrote:Hi Janus,
what are the open points that could create a chaos in your view?

Heinz Eder wrote:
That's maybe a problem, but it is also a problem in june and it is also a problem in september for others, so i think there isn't a best date, but there can be a better place to play the WC where many can come easy (doesn't automatically mean in the north of europe).
You want exactly turn the situation for 90° against Italy and the other associations now? What should be the success of doing that?

Heinz Eder wrote:
Where is it written down that results and rounds have to be printed during the event, FISTF even doesn't have a paper where it is written down that scoreboards are needed as far as I know, but maybe such a paper was made by the sports department now.
Maybe the event is bad because of that, but the organization doesn't act against the handbook, so where is the mistake?

Heinz Eder wrote:There were some positive things from the following boards too and those things need to be implemented and maybe need a modification by a new board.

Heinz Eder wrote:
People have different definitions of fun, the job of FISTF is it to satisfy as many as possible and it won't work without making a step towards the others.

Janus_Gersie wrote:

Heinz Eder wrote:Hi Janus,
what are the open points that could create a chaos in your view?

Heinz, it is not a question of "could". There are enough open points.
Yes, you are right: on a sports view the season maybe will end up basically smooth. But that was not my intention. Maybe "chaos" was the wrong word. They left behind a lot of people feeling insecure. As an example: just have a look on the SN forum. The thread about the the resignation was completely uncommented for about two days. Nobody cares ? NO! They all feel insecure ... isn't that chaos if people in this situation don't feel part of the community in order to discuss fears, possibilities etc ?
That's chaos enough for me

Heinz Eder wrote:Vesa
Why shouldn't i ask where it is written down?
Show me one post where I said that I accept illegal teams, or where I said that the Silver Cup at the EC was valid!

Heinz Eder wrote:If you say that everything done by the board should be taken back then I'm not sure if you are objective enough.

Heinz Eder wrote:How was the date changed? Differently than the change 2006 or 2008?
2006 and 2008 the associations asked for the change, do you think that happened differently in that case?

Heinz Eder wrote:When the germans asked there were 2 germans on the board, when the austrians asked I was sports director. Doesn't really look well too, right?

Heinz Eder wrote:You would have 2 possibilities in case of the change of city, to take away the World Cup and look for another organizer or to accept the change. I don't know which decision you would take.

Heinz Eder wrote:We always talk about promises and dreams given by the board. Every program is based on promises and dreams and then you vote and need to hope that it becomes real. In that case it didn't happen, but why do we blame people for saying their dreams?

Heinz Eder wrote:I think we agree on it that there should be score boards at the EC, but if you have to go 1 minute to get food and drinks it shouldn't be a criteria to judge about the organization of the tournament. The only thing which should be said is that the improvement didn't happen as we all hoped after the promises and dreams.

Heinz Eder wrote:That is the objective evaluation of that EC, if it is the worst or the best can't be said. We had many slow ECs in the past too, so it isn't something irregular. The happenings around the draw should have been considered by the organizers that's something bad, which should be clearified with the organizer in a normal way.

Heinz Eder wrote:the homepage was ok
the information before the tournament was ok
the offer of hotels was ok, even if some teams seem to choose other hotels
the tables were ok too I guess

von K. wrote:
Of course you can ask that, but you can't defend something by saying they didn't act against handbook in that point, when they did and do act against it (and all sorts of rules in FISTF) in so many other points.

von K. wrote:
Not everything. I meant things that are not widely accepted, never been in discussion and done solely based on a few persons personal idea of the game, and are not argumentated.

And I talk of decisions that are made illegally, that is not according to the rules of FISTF. Like for example the Major of Greece.

von K. wrote:
If people who are challengeable or have conflict of interest are deciding it, it is a problem.

And if the reason for change is not in the benefit of FISTF, but for 1 or 2 countries, then it is a problem.

Do you know the real story and reasons for the change? Have you followed the discussion where it really happened? The reasons don't hold water what comes to the benefit of FISTF and the game, which is the only possible referance point for any decision by the Board.

von K. wrote:
It doesn't if those persons were the ones making the decision. The most important factor is in any case transparency. To open up the procedure, and the reasons, for everyone to see. If the reasons are accepted, ok. If not, it is for everyone to see.

These decisions are part of the FISTF problem today. They live in the memory, and as/if they are not transparent, any rumour will do. The "german board" is part of the problem today, like is the "italian board". People are like that, if they don't get evidence that nothing fishy has happened.

von K. wrote:
If you talk about the italian WC, there was no need to change the location in the first place. In Rome there was a magnificent sports hall promised to A. Rodriguez by Rome's sports directors (if the hall was free then), and other good locations were available. The change was a decision made by italian FISCT and not FISTF. They thought it was their right to do that change, but if that is the case, the rule has to be changed immediately.

The change of date was made for italian (and maltese I think) juniors to be able to go to the WC better in July.

von K. wrote:
You can't promise something if you don't have a big possibility for it to become true. It's called deceiving. Otherwise anyone can promise anything.

The Board rode the professionalism wave and then they themselves couldn't live up to that even a little bit by organising a super EC. An "ok" EC is just not what they have been talking about all the time, and what they are expecting from even the normal GP's now. At the very least it tells of people with lack of connection with reality.

People make mistakes and promise empty promises. But the least they can do is apologise and admit they made false promises. I've seen so many false promises in FISTF before and after Frankfurt, that I don't believe it. And not one apology, or even an explanation with humility. Only excess martyrdom in the homefront of the cosy italian forum.

von K. wrote:
So why were these guys elected? The reason was professionalism, the best tournaments etc. And the thing that really appals me is that in the past years there has been so much criticism about the unprofessianlistic World Cups (and other tournaments) of Rotterdam and Rain, with beer at the tables and schedules that are not kept, and then at this grand event by the critics the beer was there again, but this time it surprisingly was not the fault of the organisers, but the drinkers.

Again the same thing. Not a problem, if the organisers have not spent the last years shouting lack of professionalism and poor organisation from the rooftops.

von K. wrote:
The information didn't seem ok before the tournament, as far as I read in the Subbuteonews and even here from Marcus (I think, I did). But are these other points enough after all the hype? No, of course not. If you are massacring others for their tournaments, you should be able to make a better one, or take the heat after a failure to do so.

And if the hotel offer was ok, why do I read in the italian forum Capponi speak about it like it was the foreign teams' fault that they didn't book that hotel and then the sponsor (the hotel/casino, I understood) was not happy. Why not take the blame for giving false information to the sponsor in the first place, and why not inform people that they have to stay there, if the hotel is the sponsor, or something? Why blame others again in the brainwashing institute that is the italian forum, as far as international matters are concerned.

For anyone interested in more critical tones about certain people, I recommend the old subbuteo forum in Italy. It gives some idea (objectivity is for anyone to judge, of course) of how some FISTF people love dictating others, love their own ideas even over a clear majority and how they for that reason love the chairs.

von K. wrote:
It would be nice, Heinz, to see your list of positive things by the last few boards. I mean it really, because I don't remember many of those highlights.

Heinz Eder wrote:

von K. wrote:
Of course you can ask that, but you can't defend something by saying they didn't act against handbook in that point, when they did and do act against it (and all sorts of rules in FISTF) in so many other points.

Don't change my words. Do we want objective critic or do we only want to look for somebody with the general responsibility for everything?
You critizize things that aren't written down anywhere, and your argument is that the board didn't respect other rules too, so why do I say that they respect that one.
Based on that we surely can start a constructive discussion what should be made better in future.

Heinz Eder wrote:

von K. wrote:
Not everything. I meant things that are not widely accepted, never been in discussion and done solely based on a few persons personal idea of the game, and are not argumentated.

And I talk of decisions that are made illegally, that is not according to the rules of FISTF. Like for example the Major of Greece.

The Major of Greece became legal with the last version of the handbook, which was published. So you can change the handbook again now and make it illegal again, if that solves the problem which we had 2 years ago is more than questionable. If we need to vote about every decision even the one about a fifth major, FISTF won't be able to move anymore.
I agree on it that there are decisions which shouldn't be taken by the board or even directors on their own, but the decision about a fifth major shouldn't be the subject matter of a voting between all associations.
What kind of decisions that should be, should be a discussion at a Congress.

Heinz Eder wrote:

von K. wrote:
If people who are challengeable or have conflict of interest are deciding it, it is a problem.

And if the reason for change is not in the benefit of FISTF, but for 1 or 2 countries, then it is a problem.

Do you know the real story and reasons for the change? Have you followed the discussion where it really happened? The reasons don't hold water what comes to the benefit of FISTF and the game, which is the only possible referance point for any decision by the Board.

Who decides about the benefit for FISTF?
Or other question who can judge about the real benefit for FISTF?

Heinz Eder wrote:

von K. wrote:
It doesn't if those persons were the ones making the decision. The most important factor is in any case transparency. To open up the procedure, and the reasons, for everyone to see. If the reasons are accepted, ok. If not, it is for everyone to see.

These decisions are part of the FISTF problem today. They live in the memory, and as/if they are not transparent, any rumour will do. The "german board" is part of the problem today, like is the "italian board". People are like that, if they don't get evidence that nothing fishy has happened.

Then let's hope that you will have 6 members from 6 different countries in the next board. It won't take longer than 5 days before people start saying block A and block B after elections depending on the nationality of the board member.
People who want to complain, always will find a reason to complain. It is not possible to satisfy everybody, if you think like that I want to congratulate you already now to your Burn-Out you would get in a very short time.

Heinz Eder wrote:

von K. wrote:
If you talk about the italian WC, there was no need to change the location in the first place. In Rome there was a magnificent sports hall promised to A. Rodriguez by Rome's sports directors (if the hall was free then), and other good locations were available. The change was a decision made by italian FISCT and not FISTF. They thought it was their right to do that change, but if that is the case, the rule has to be changed immediately.

The change of date was made for italian (and maltese I think) juniors to be able to go to the WC better in July.

You gave the answer to that chapter already in your last sentence of the first part. It was their right to do so, if a FISTF Board thinks different that has to be changed. In a first row the association applies for the World Cup.
I don't think that change was only made for italians and maltesians, when the WC was in september children from other countries had also problems to attend the world cup.
The problem is that school doesn't start at the same time in all countries, but there are holidays in most countries at the end of july. It can be positive when children have holidays it also could be negative, the same way both aspects are possible when the children have school.
The only real disadvantage is that trips like Greece, Spain or Italy are more expensive because of the holidays.

Heinz Eder wrote:

von K. wrote:
You can't promise something if you don't have a big possibility for it to become true. It's called deceiving. Otherwise anyone can promise anything.

The Board rode the professionalism wave and then they themselves couldn't live up to that even a little bit by organising a super EC. An "ok" EC is just not what they have been talking about all the time, and what they are expecting from even the normal GP's now. At the very least it tells of people with lack of connection with reality.

People make mistakes and promise empty promises. But the least they can do is apologise and admit they made false promises. I've seen so many false promises in FISTF before and after Frankfurt, that I don't believe it. And not one apology, or even an explanation with humility. Only excess martyrdom in the homefront of the cosy italian forum.

That view justify to say the EC was one of the worst ever? This sentence implements a comparison with other ECs and not the promises given by anybody.
If you say it was one of the worst, you are not right in my opinion. If you say it was a big disappointment after the promises given, I agree with you.
That comment is at least valid for your next 2 answers below too.

Heinz Eder wrote:

von K. wrote:
So why were these guys elected? The reason was professionalism, the best tournaments etc. And the thing that really appals me is that in the past years there has been so much criticism about the unprofessianlistic World Cups (and other tournaments) of Rotterdam and Rain, with beer at the tables and schedules that are not kept, and then at this grand event by the critics the beer was there again, but this time it surprisingly was not the fault of the organisers, but the drinkers.

Again the same thing. Not a problem, if the organisers have not spent the last years shouting lack of professionalism and poor organisation from the rooftops.

von K. wrote:
The information didn't seem ok before the tournament, as far as I read in the Subbuteonews and even here from Marcus (I think, I did). But are these other points enough after all the hype? No, of course not. If you are massacring others for their tournaments, you should be able to make a better one, or take the heat after a failure to do so.

And if the hotel offer was ok, why do I read in the italian forum Capponi speak about it like it was the foreign teams' fault that they didn't book that hotel and then the sponsor (the hotel/casino, I understood) was not happy. Why not take the blame for giving false information to the sponsor in the first place, and why not inform people that they have to stay there, if the hotel is the sponsor, or something? Why blame others again in the brainwashing institute that is the italian forum, as far as international matters are concerned.

For anyone interested in more critical tones about certain people, I recommend the old subbuteo forum in Italy. It gives some idea (objectivity is for anyone to judge, of course) of how some FISTF people love dictating others, love their own ideas even over a clear majority and how they for that reason love the chairs.

Vesa, please don't mix things here, I think we should be more concrete and detailed, that should be the job of our discussion here. We should inform people, trashing shouldn't take place here.
I talk about the organizer, you talk about the role of competition manager.
Marcus complained about the competition manager (more detailed about the missing information about the system of the tournament)
The organizer isn't responsible for that, the organizer did a good job in my opinion.

Heinz Eder wrote:You hopefully won't make the organizer responsible for it that Piero complained about it that the sponsors were not happy. You hopefully don't make the organizer responsible for it that teams also chose other hotels close to the venue.

Organizer = Marco Pinausi
Competition Manager = FISTF (Stefano and Piero in that case)

Heinz Eder wrote:

von K. wrote:
It would be nice, Heinz, to see your list of positive things by the last few boards. I mean it really, because I don't remember many of those highlights.

in my opinion the following things should be conitnued.

sports newsletter
surveys
circulars
material matters
style guide
newly designed forms
regulary updated homepage

most of those things existed 2 years ago too, but they were developped by the boards of the last 2 years and that should be used in future too.

Before you say now that those activities are not much for 2 years, I want to ask you already now, to show me my post where I mentioned anything about it, how active they have been in my opinion.
I only said some of the things should be continued by a new board, nothing more.

Mi ero ripromesso di stare zitto....

Ma siccome sembra che ci sia ancora bisogno di spiegazioni do le ultime.

Magari servono per riflettere.

Stefano ed io eravamo arrivati a Nova Goriza con il vaso molto ma molto pieno.

Mauro ha scritto tutto quello che penso, ma è stato troppo gentile e troppo profondo.

Il CDT/Subbuteo è più terra terra, quindi cominciamo: (citerò gli episodi curiosi solo da giovedi scorso...., ripeto, dell'ultima settimana)

La settima scorsa ho scritto a Riccardo Marinucci per dirgli che se Sergio Loureiro non avesse fatto la tessera dell Federazione Portoghese non avrebbe giocato la Europa league o la Coppa Italia, o la Seria A, etc.. (mi scuso con Sergio, non ci stiamo simpatici ma almeno è di quelli che dice come pensa. Ma non accetto più da nessuno che mi faccia la morale sulla barca...)

La settimana scorsa ho litigato con Carlos Flores perchè non ha ancora restituito la Coppa Master del 2007, che sembra diventata una questione di stato invece per Massimiliano Nastasi riavere dopo averla vinta nel 2008. Ci sono state chiamate con De Francesco, Lamberti e Flores.

La settimana scorsa Leonidas Koutrumanos ha avuto, un principio d'infarto. La sua squadra non è venuta alla Europa League. Sono arrivato a dubitare, purtroppo della veridicità dell'informazione. Mi dispiace anche se ancora non so se è vero.

La settimana scorsa ho ricevuto circa 70 mail (dato certo) sul "problema Kaspar Bennet", squalificato DALLA SUA FEDERAZIONE E NON DALLA FISTF perchè non si è presentato, forse perchè ubriaco, a giocare il Mondiale a squadre. Kasper ha "provocato" una riunione d'urgenza a Nova Goriza dove ci ha chiesto di giocare perchè in mattinata sarebbe arrivata una richiesta della ESTFA di cancellare la squalifica....non ha giocato. Delle poche cose fatte bene nel week end.

Venerdi sera, arrivando a Nova Gorizia, scopriamo che Issy Le Molineaux, unica squadra francese presente all'evento, non viene...e non ha avvisato, visto che la notizia la porta..Nuno Noronha, portoghese che gioca in Spagna. (?)

E arriviamo al torneo di Sabato.

Marco Pinausi era molto triste perchè più della metà delle squadre non era andata a dormire agli alberghi convenzionati...(c'è la crisi...peccato che poi la gente i soldi li sputtana per ubriacarsi o per giocarseli al casinò...)

Naturalmente lo sponsor principale gli ha detto che cosi non andava bene..gli costerà qualche centinaio di euro.

Ma andiamo alla parte tecnica:

La Liga Odense non doveva giocare. Non avevavno una sola maglia uguale. Se avessi richiesto 4 magli uguali....giocavano al massimo 10 squadre. (certo perchè è difficile coordinarsi con i compagni su che maglia mettersi per giocare la mattina...non lo fanno in nessun sport..leitner ha giocato la semifinale con la maglia del Milan fatta per celebrare lo scudetto 2011..)

La metà circa dei portieri era inregolare perchè superiori in altezza e diametro della barra.

In barba hai divieti di bere alcol ho visto bella gente con le birre in mano in tribuna e sul parquet.

Un grande numero di giocatori non aveva le figure delle stesso colore, o addirittura i dischetti.

Le basi+figure sotto i 27 mm abbondavano, quando un mio compagno di squadra (arbitrando) l'ha fatto notare a un giocatore belga...è quasi scoppiata la rissa.

Ho dovuto spiegare a giocatori considerati "forti" che giocano da 15 anni che la regola è...del 1994. E che il problema non sono le basi Colpani. I 4 giocatori del Madrid (la mia squadra) gioca con le Colpani...perfettamente regolari a 27 mm...quindi non era impossibile no?

Poi ci sono state la partite:

Andavano ammoniti o espulsi Saverio Bari, Simone Bertelli, Mark Gauci, tutto l'Atlas, Kechris e quasi tutto l'Olimpia Pireo, la Virtus Rieti, lo Charleroi, i due Rochefort (compreso il presidente della federazione Belga Dejardin)...un paio di gocatori dello Stembert, etc.etc.etc. Dico eccetera perchè non voglio far torto solo ai citati. Ce ne sono molti di più che mi sono dimenticato.

Ci sono stati un paio di accenni, e non solo, di rissa, diverse scene d'escandescenze.

Curioso l'episodio, prima delle semifinali, in cui siamo stati fermi 15 minuti perchè il Rochefort non volveva arbitrare dopo averlo fatto gia due volte di seguito.....non vi dirò cosa ha detto Dejardin....capitano e presidente belga. (devo anche dire che tutte le squadre hanno giocato minimo 10 partite...)

Ammoniti? 0. Espulsi? 0. Premetto che le regole non mi consentivano di prendere provvedimenti in quanto presidente. Non è previsto.

Curiosamente qualcuno ha avuto anche il coraggio di protestare perchè non c'era Eurosport.....a cui ho dovuto chiedere io..di non venire...perchè sapevo come sarebbe andata.

Questa è la cronaca dell'ultima settimana, solo legata agli eventi più "importanti" della vita "normale" del CDT.

Un ultima riflessione. Non ci prendiamo in giro, Mauro l'ha spiegato benissimo, seduti a un tavolini siamo tutti della bravissime persone, ma quando parte il cronometro ci trasformiamo in psicopatici.

Curiosamente quello che ho scritto me lo aveva annunciato Coppenolle. Vincent aveva ragione; a la gente del CDT/Subbuteo va bene cosi.

A me no.

Un abbraccio a tutti voi, ma solo a tavolino, mai più al tavolo di gioco.

Piero

E`curioso come questa decisione sia stata presa, probabilmente, da Laurent Garnier, che è sparito il giorno dopo le elezioni di febbraio.