We are we go?

Guest Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:35 am

Where are we go?

The worldwide football table is living a very confusing phase.

-FISTF communication does not work, we do not know anything, neither results nor communications.
-The president work hard but he has very important temporal lapsos and only take care to the communications with the federations but not to the players.
-The international calendar is full of mistakes and there are a lot of things without confirmation.
-There are very "important" people who only devote themselves to criticize, criticize, criticize without intention to listen what others have to say or without giving not even an alone alternative about how to do the things.
-The international forum has 123 new recruits after 8 months. Added to that, 10 write, 9 of them only to criticize. This has failed clearly because in the medium term only to criticize tires. Why we do not start trying to be constructive?
--The Championship is an organizative disaster (still we do not know at what time will start the tournament...) and the Europe League is suffering a very clear boicot from Belgium and Germany (last year the Champions League was played by 6 Belgian and 3 German. This year there are 3 and 1 and nobody in the Europe League). It smeals like cheap revenge.
-The competition continue to be understimated forgetting that there are 3 or 4 teams between the best in the world and last year won Napoli, 7 clasificated in the Italian leage...At least, respect for who is working to organise it.
-The complicate situation in Greece does not help to serenate the thing. Also, is good remember that there are not only problems in Greece. Is there no will to solve it? So, there is not solution and is useless continue with the discussion. We want to discuss it in 2 or 3 phases? I am available. In other way, as Chinese say: "what does not have solution is not a problem".
-We do not know anything neither the General Secretary nor his responsability about the new goalkeeper project. We will continue having an evident problem that also reduces many seriousness to the problem at institutional level.

-The worst, there is a blog from the countries Board and it happened the following:
* There are inscribed people at personal title without any official communication regarding their designation.
* Is not possible understand if the possitions defended are from ones from a determinate country or from people at individual title. Quine is there and represents his country but not himself.
* At the end, they all are only worried of writing and to be listened before to listen to others opinions.
* We do not know is some countries have the right to be there or not. And others that are not, continue organizing FISTF official events (like if a non member country of the FIFA organise an international championship...)

THIS PROJECT, VERY INTERESTING AND POTENTIALLY REVOLUTIONARY, IT CAN FAIL IN VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME AND IT WOULD BE A DISASTER.

Saying that, I want to add that I continue working in a possitive way, trying to build and not destroy and at disposal to give a hand to find a solution for the problems at personal title, like a Spanish federation president, like commercial manager of Total Soccer...in any case.

Despite of ourselves we continue waking interest up in the mass media, some interest in some commercial sectors and we can have big opportunities.

I put to disposition Subbuteonews, that we are reorganising to start the construction, at least to a common philosophy.

But we all need to have desire to work together in the same direction as, is evident, we are not get on well.

Thank you to all people that has arrive to the end of this intervention and over all, to those that will try to understand it.

For what I could count, I continue trying it.

Greetings from Madrid.

Piero Capponi

panagios Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:46 am

Do you have anything concrete to propose? this all sounded like a politician's speach. state the obvious and propose nothing.

Guest Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:12 pm

And he hoped and still hope, like others, that the solutions would arrive from the Council of Nations.

I have not got all the solutions, I have limited at this stage to make a photograph.

I like to listen to souciones of others, because when I said possible solutions I have criticized me for being the one who wants to know all the answers ....

**Admin** Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:24 pm

Communication: what more did you expect from someone like Koutromanos?
International forum: should people remeber it's an "independant forum", not an official forum?
Critics: back one year ago, people were criticizng the former Board without bringing solutions. But at least the former Board was able to publish a calendar, a newsletter, results, a news blog,... to keep things running. Catania became president based on promises. He didn't keep any of his promises, in particular to have elections in september (!!!)
Boycott: it's not a boycott, it's a difference of philosophy. For Belgium, the Europa League is a meaningless tournament. It's more interesting to play the Grand Prix of England, Germany or France instead of playing the Europa League. The Europa League is the "Cup of losers", nothing more.
Greece: by putting Koutromanos in the FISTF Board, you reduce the chance to find solutions in Greece.
Goalkeeper: easy solution: allow only the FISTF sports figure keeper. That's an easy and good solution.

drastis Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:02 pm

Admin wrote:Communication: what more did you expect from someone like Koutromanos?

International forum: should people remeber it's an "independant forum", not an official forum? By the way, where is the official forum, promised six months ago

Critics: back one year ago, people were criticizng the former Board without bringing solutions. But at least the former Board was able to publish a calendar, a newsletter, results, a news blog,... to keep things running. Catania became president based on promises. He didn't keep any of his promises, in particular to have elections in september (!!!) But, we have a Council of Nations!!

Boycott: it's not a boycott, it's a difference of philosophy. For Belgium, the Europa League is a meaningless tournament. It's more interesting to play the Grand Prix of England, Germany or France instead of playing the Europa League. The Europa League is the "Cup of losers", nothing more.

Greece: by putting Koutromanos in the FISTF Board, you reduce the chance to find solutions in Greece.

Goalkeeper: easy solution: allow only the FISTF sports figure keeper. That's an easy and good solution. An easier solution: Use a tool to measure goalkeepers.

Heinz Eder Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:37 pm

Piero, the solutions are on the table in the end.

Calender:
I sent the actual version of the calender regulary to the board, I sent mails to Silvio about requests of tournaments. Seeing then, that a tournament is in the ranking which was not officially confirmed till 3rd of september makes me thinking, my time was spent for nothing.
Solution:
Those events which were not confirmed are not valid. Unforutnately one involved tournament is a tournament organized by a board member, but that would be the right solution.

Critic:
I tried for some time to keep quiet with too much critic, but seeing things happening like the last 4 weeks doesn't let me think that the board can do the job.
Solution:
The board only should do things in a proper way, without giving people the feeling FISTF is their personal playground.

Forum:
I can understand both views, those who don't want a forum but also those who think it is necessary to have a forum. It is the decision of the board, how important a forum is.
Solution:
There is an unofficial forum existing, FISTF Board should respect that, but they don't need ti support it. some discussions of course are not essentially for table soccer, but I think some things could also be interesting for the board, even if there are only 120 users registered.

Europa League/Champions League/World Cup:
A bit more of discussion and listening to some people with experience would save us that discussion and a lot of time.
There is a simple rule the board always should respect. Changes for the qualification system of WC or EC are only possible at the start of the season. This simple rule was broken by that board, when they changed the criterias for qualification in february or march. The board was informed about the possible consequences, but they simply ignored it as it seems.
People and countries complained always about the substitutes rule. The current board decides even better. They make a system without substitutes, and then they give one more place to the countries 4 weeks before the event against their own rules published by circulars.
If the WR points would be important for teams to play the EL, they get that information after the event, then the board maybe tells them that they get less points than playing a GP, who knows?
Same situation was at the World Cup. People complained that there are too much subs and then even a 22nd lady was invited to play, even if it didn't change something to get a better number. Same in the U19.
The change to take 16 players from each category was also decided in february, when the idea was presented in Frankfurt in january, most people already were against it, but it was realized after the meeting in Frankfurt and the members weren't asked again.
Solution:
Changes should be effective with the start of the season 2010/2011 and the new events should be organized first with the season 2011/2012, then the board would have much more time to plan and have a look on all eventual problems. We see that making things in a hurry doesn't make both events interesting.
It wouldn't happen that a country is represented only in the Europa League or that teams don't know how much points they will get and so on. All those things have to be solved before creating a new event. Another possibility would have been to invite 2nd teams from clubs to play the EL, instead of asking a 5th or 6th team from the same country, maybe the EL would then attract teams from countries which are not represented in EL now.
As long as the events are on the same week-end clubs really would have to send the 2nd team to the EL.
The WC qualification needs to be changed. 16 players from the WR, maximum of 3 from the same country, but no replacement of the fourth player by number 17 and so on. Same with categories top 8 and maximum of 2, but in no case a player out of the top 8 can get a Wild Card for the WC. That would bring down numbers a bit, and the goal should be to play the Open and Veterans with 40 (8 groups of 5) and the categories with 20 (4 groups of 5). That should be the future of WC in my opinion.
Selection of subs also needs to be changed in my opinion like I already described in another topic here on the forum.

Of course the old board did also mistakes, but at least we respected the basics, because of that it ran better than now.
I have the feeling that the new board did changes very fast that they can show something in september at the elections, but when they saw that people are more than critical against their ideas, they looked how to come out of the promised elections.

Greece:
The solution is on its way. The decision of court is the solution. It takes more time, that's right, but it is the only possibility to solve that finally.

The Council:
It depends all of the people sitting in that council. They decide about their own success.
Solution:
Those people in that council have to work together and they have to listen to each other. People in that board shouldn't represent the board, because they are from the same country of a board member. That would kill the council very fast.

We will see what the future will bring.

Do you want some more ideas and solutions?

Heinz

pierocapponi wrote:Where are we go?

The worldwide football table is living a very confusing phase.

-FISTF communication does not work, we do not know anything, neither results nor communications.
-The president work hard but he has very important temporal lapsos and only take care to the communications with the federations but not to the players.
-The international calendar is full of mistakes and there are a lot of things without confirmation.
-There are very "important" people who only devote themselves to criticize, criticize, criticize without intention to listen what others have to say or without giving not even an alone alternative about how to do the things.
-The international forum has 123 new recruits after 8 months. Added to that, 10 write, 9 of them only to criticize. This has failed clearly because in the medium term only to criticize tires. Why we do not start trying to be constructive?
--The Championship is an organizative disaster (still we do not know at what time will start the tournament...) and the Europe League is suffering a very clear boicot from Belgium and Germany (last year the Champions League was played by 6 Belgian and 3 German. This year there are 3 and 1 and nobody in the Europe League). It smeals like cheap revenge.
-The competition continue to be understimated forgetting that there are 3 or 4 teams between the best in the world and last year won Napoli, 7 clasificated in the Italian leage...At least, respect for who is working to organise it.
-The complicate situation in Greece does not help to serenate the thing. Also, is good remember that there are not only problems in Greece. Is there no will to solve it? So, there is not solution and is useless continue with the discussion. We want to discuss it in 2 or 3 phases? I am available. In other way, as Chinese say: "what does not have solution is not a problem".
-We do not know anything neither the General Secretary nor his responsability about the new goalkeeper project. We will continue having an evident problem that also reduces many seriousness to the problem at institutional level.

-The worst, there is a blog from the countries Board and it happened the following:
* There are inscribed people at personal title without any official communication regarding their designation.
* Is not possible understand if the possitions defended are from ones from a determinate country or from people at individual title. Quine is there and represents his country but not himself.
* At the end, they all are only worried of writing and to be listened before to listen to others opinions.
* We do not know is some countries have the right to be there or not. And others that are not, continue organizing FISTF official events (like if a non member country of the FIFA organise an international championship...)

THIS PROJECT, VERY INTERESTING AND POTENTIALLY REVOLUTIONARY, IT CAN FAIL IN VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME AND IT WOULD BE A DISASTER.

Saying that, I want to add that I continue working in a possitive way, trying to build and not destroy and at disposal to give a hand to find a solution for the problems at personal title, like a Spanish federation president, like commercial manager of Total Soccer...in any case.

Despite of ourselves we continue waking interest up in the mass media, some interest in some commercial sectors and we can have big opportunities.

I put to disposition Subbuteonews, that we are reorganising to start the construction, at least to a common philosophy.

But we all need to have desire to work together in the same direction as, is evident, we are not get on well.

Thank you to all people that has arrive to the end of this intervention and over all, to those that will try to understand it.

For what I could count, I continue trying it.

Greetings from Madrid.

Piero Capponi

Guest Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:02 pm

Heinz sorry I did not explained well and I apologize all.

I think we have a philosophical problem is not technical.

Technically we can fix almost anything, it's just a question of voting yes or no to things.

Your hours as a lot of solutions, ok, but your last sentence which makes it difficult to work.

On the forum, I'm not criticizing, is the only instrument of conversation at this point, I'm calling it a forum "negative" and that the negativity bored.

If more positive, more proactive, more respectful to people maybe would have more success.

I do not agree with the solution in Greece is the legal way, there will be a sentence, then there will be resources and in the end, a solution is not "peaceful" we find two federations.

Leonidas is that is working hard at the local level, but com responsible for the communication of the FISTF have to resign soon.

An example of what I'm saying? The first response to my intervention has been a critic ..... it difficult to build well.

**Admin** Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:21 pm

if the Board was made of honest people working well and in a positive way, people would follow them.

Because they "cheated" to be elected, they started their term in a way that novody can trust the Board.

When you don't trust your "leaders", you can not think positive.

panagios Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:38 pm

Heinz Eder wrote:Piero, the solutions are on the table in the end.

Forum:
I can understand both views, those who don't want a forum but also those who think it is necessary to have a forum. It is the decision of the board, how important a forum is.
Solution:
There is an unofficial forum existing, FISTF Board should respect that, but they don't need ti support it. some discussions of course are not essentially for table soccer, but I think some things could also be interesting for the board, even if there are only 120 users registered.

[/quote]

I agree with you, but if they do not write here (or somewhere) they should not write in the Italian forum as well

Heinz Eder Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:39 pm

Piero,
of course only negative things are boring.
the problem of philosophy is that people don't trust the board at the moment.
The result is a council of nations for an example.
The board lost its credibility by actions which had not been necessary in such a hurry.
Only to say those people who blame board members now have to change the situation in FISTF by not seeing things always only negative is a bit too easy. I think a bigger part has to come from the board. The board has to show players/clubs and associations that they can work in a proper way.

Then they can get back the trust. Olivier is a trustful man, so I'm sure that in the sports sector things are getting better again, but there are also other board members who have to change.

pierocapponi wrote:Heinz sorry I did not explained well and I apologize all.

I think we have a philosophical problem is not technical.

Technically we can fix almost anything, it's just a question of voting yes or no to things.

Your hours as a lot of solutions, ok, but your last sentence which makes it difficult to work.

On the forum, I'm not criticizing, is the only instrument of conversation at this point, I'm calling it a forum "negative" and that the negativity bored.

If more positive, more proactive, more respectful to people maybe would have more success.

I do not agree with the solution in Greece is the legal way, there will be a sentence, then there will be resources and in the end, a solution is not "peaceful" we find two federations.

Leonidas is that is working hard at the local level, but com responsible for the communication of the FISTF have to resign soon.

An example of what I'm saying? The first response to my intervention has been a critic ..... it difficult to build well.

Heinz Eder Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:48 pm

of course it is a question of respect, if I'm a board member I have to decide if I don't want to be active on a forum or not. to exclude people outside your own country isn't really nice.
but i wouldn't call it the biggest problem, the board had. they were enthusiastic in january after they got elected and started to decide things and they maybe wanted to show leadership, so everything had to happen in a second, that was wrong and now people see that their decisions had consequences. The problem is that those consequences affected players and clubs directly, and people are not happy with those consequences.
I also learnt that only a few people are talking to your face, if they have a problem or don't like something.
So it is always "dangerous" if the associations are quiet, but it should give to think even more if the associations create an own council, because then something must be really wrong currently.

panagios wrote:
Heinz Eder wrote:Piero, the solutions are on the table in the end.

Forum:
I can understand both views, those who don't want a forum but also those who think it is necessary to have a forum. It is the decision of the board, how important a forum is.
Solution:
There is an unofficial forum existing, FISTF Board should respect that, but they don't need ti support it. some discussions of course are not essentially for table soccer, but I think some things could also be interesting for the board, even if there are only 120 users registered.

I agree with you, but if they do not write here (or somewhere) they should not write in the Italian forum as well[/quote]

Guest Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:22 pm

Gentlemen, here I remind you that only a public work program for the elections as.

Much has been made and has been criticized a lot but ideas "real" few.

I think the problem or have been the ideas of De Francesco (Europe League, 6 players on the list, etc..) I belief that the problem is always in communication and general fitness.

What I am "demanding" and "proposing" is a discussion based only on construction.

One example is the logo of the Champions League. Would have sufficed us for teniedo solution, though note that the person who offered it (the logo is very nice) did so free as a favor.

drastis Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:26 pm

It is not as complicated as some people try to present it. The provisional (ha ha) BoD was elected after they had promised certain things. They did not keep any of their promises, on the contrary they messed things up to the maximum degree. Moreover, they cheated openly when they refused to have a new election, as they should have. Half of them left the BoD shortly, while the other half can't handle even the easiest tasks.

In conclusion, they have failed terribly and they must go immediately (not only the non-communication director as Piero said, ALL OF THEM).

Regarding the Council of Nations, I think it is a bad joke, it will never work. Regarding the matter of Greece, I would like to tell Piero that he is wrong. It is not a problem between persons. It is a problem created by specific persons, their attitude and their ambition. It will be solved only when these specific persons are sent home. However, I would agree with Piero, the best way to send them home is not courts and trials, players should send them home, just like FISTF BoD, nations should send them home, this is the right way.

maxischn Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:30 pm

i will try not only to critize, but to be constructive

pierocapponi wrote:
-FISTF communication does not work, we do not know anything, neither results nor communications.

that could have been solved in the "old" forum, or by installing a (promised) new one after some days

-The president work hard but he has very important temporal lapsos and only take care to the communications with the federations but not to the players.

which is not his main duty..... that's why there is a communications director and a vice-president

-The international calendar is full of mistakes and there are a lot of things without confirmation.

Heinz already explained pretty well this desaster.... AND an official forum could have solved this easily

-There are very "important" people who only devote themselves to criticize, criticize, criticize without intention to listen what others have to say or without giving not even an alone alternative about how to do the things.

there are "important" people who have been banned out of no reason because some people can't find any other way to handle critism.

-The international forum has 123 new recruits after 8 months. Added to that, 10 write, 9 of them only to criticize. This has failed clearly because in the medium term only to criticize tires. Why we do not start trying to be constructive?

sorry to say, but why do the "people" have to be constructive? for example - the decision for the "champions leage" has been taken without the people - a big chance to let the people bring in constructive ideas, but no, it has been decided behind closed curtains and now we got it. the only thing left is to criticized it now, pretty normal reaction, or not?

--The Championship is an organizative disaster (still we do not know at what time will start the tournament...) and the Europe League is suffering a very clear boicot from Belgium and Germany (last year the Champions League was played by 6 Belgian and 3 German. This year there are 3 and 1 and nobody in the Europe League). It smeals like cheap revenge.

we would have had more informations if the communications director...... or if there would have been an official board..... well you know where i'm getting to....

-The competition continue to be understimated forgetting that there are 3 or 4 teams between the best in the world and last year won Napoli, 7 clasificated in the Italian leage...At least, respect for who is working to organise it.

i don't really know what you want to say with that.....sorry Smile

-The complicate situation in Greece does not help to serenate the thing. Also, is good remember that there are not only problems in Greece. Is there no will to solve it? So, there is not solution and is useless continue with the discussion. We want to discuss it in 2 or 3 phases? I am available. In other way, as Chinese say: "what does not have solution is not a problem".

as it has been said already there will be a final decision in a court soon, and FISTF should react to that and handle things right - and in my humble opinion - the current communicationsdirector should be immediately dismissed as long as this quarrel is upright

-We do not know anything neither the General Secretary nor his responsability about the new goalkeeper project. We will continue having an evident problem that also reduces many seriousness to the problem at institutional level.

another point where "the people" could have brought in constructive ideas... but again the decision was taken behind closed curtains without "us"

-The worst, there is a blog from the countries Board and it happened the following:
* There are inscribed people at personal title without any official communication regarding their designation.
* Is not possible understand if the possitions defended are from ones from a determinate country or from people at individual title. Quine is there and represents his country but not himself.
* At the end, they all are only worried of writing and to be listened before to listen to others opinions.
* We do not know is some countries have the right to be there or not. And others that are not, continue organizing FISTF official events (like if a non member country of the FIFA organise an international championship...)

didn't quite get the sense of this either, sorry?

THIS PROJECT, VERY INTERESTING AND POTENTIALLY REVOLUTIONARY, IT CAN FAIL IN VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME AND IT WOULD BE A DISASTER.

the board failed already, and to be constructive..... they should have resigned months ago and at least at the world cup when they had the chance to....

Saying that, I want to add that I continue working in a possitive way, trying to build and not destroy and at disposal to give a hand to find a solution for the problems at personal title, like a Spanish federation president, like commercial manager of Total Soccer...in any case.

i respect that you, and sadly only you, are trying to "communicate" with the people.... but if decisions are taken and ignoring this forum and the people writing here, nothing will change at all...

Despite of ourselves we continue waking interest up in the mass media, some interest in some commercial sectors and we can have big opportunities.

at the moment i think it would be better not to attract media.... if they get to now this BoD, they will rip us apart seeing this ridicilous institution of people playing with small figures...

But we all need to have desire to work together in the same direction as, is evident, we are not get on well.

tell this to the Board Members, not the federations and the people

greetings,

Markus Jurik

kechris Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:46 pm

I read these three pages. All you have right. But i wrote ALL these comments the last months.

I am not good in diplomacy but maybe i can see the future very fast .

So i insist. The council will fail. Why? Because the members are not elected (for example Papakonstantinou is the right hand of Koutroumanos so you can find easy his opinions). Because is impossible to find solutions 15 persons in front of laptop. Because council is not official in FISTF handbook and statutes. Because council haven't more power than Catania.

Open your eyes. As soon as possible we MUST do elections. FREE ELECTIONS without special rules which help few persons.
We must solve immediately the problems. The Greek problem was small and every year be bigger. You wait the decision of court but until this time you accepted a unfair person to represent one country. SHAME.
15 persons pay money and "pay" more than money (no allow to play in tournaments) because they didn't accepted blackmails and fake elections. Those 15 persons have bigger balls than the balls of persons in Rain's meeting who kept close their mouth in blackmails.
You pay money for transfers for travel for new bases new figures painted by bertu and illegal keepers but you didn't spend one euro to protect your honourableness.

Before one month an international open took place in Athens. It was not in calendar but gave points in world ranking!!! 3 teams by the same club (olympia) and 15 persons in individual categories didn't play after decision of the competition manager. But the disciplinary council didn t ban none yet as responsible for this. The same team asked everyday by Catania and rest BoD members to play in Europa cups. There were free position for Greek team but they refused. Who care for this. The next time which team will have the same problems? MAYBE YOUR TEAM?

I want to keep Mark's words.
"there are "important" people who have been banned out of no reason because some people can't find any other way to handle critism"

Goodnight and goodluck.

von K. Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:30 pm

Piero, I'm sorry, but all this is known.

I read in the italian forum that Italy and Spain don't like the communication of FISTF (an example). Why don't you (your countries) make yourselves heard about it?

There's no point calling for positive solutions, when no real demands for better things come from your country.

Where was Spain when we had a Congress in Rain? And you say (in italian forum) something about the french law prohibiting elections in Rain, because of the statutes? I don't know how elections can be cancelled a month before the Congress, when they were promised in January, and with a late cancellation, there was no possibility to call for an EGM for Rain.

There is no interest in smaller or non-european nations by the Board, and wasn't even when you were in it. De Francesco says (in italian forum) that members should be forced to participate in Champions League, but no one has asked why many nations don't participate even in the World Cup. To demand participation for something is quite unbelievable when we are talking about a global sport.

To me this sport/game is for everyone. Needs and wants of all different nations have to be considered, also the small nations. It's the same thing with for example Italy, and the other top countries.

I respect your idea of positive attitude, but put yourself in the position of others. It's not very easy to be positive in many countries.

In Greece it's ridiculous to wait for the second ruling. Can someone please give me an official comment from Greece justice ministry, that says first court has no use at all. Why is there a court if it serves no purpose? The latest ruling has to be the one respected, also by FISTF. I've never heard of any other possibility. It doesn't matter what the case is and who was judged to be wrong.

Coppenolle's ban is just ridiculous. I'm waiting for a same sort of ban on the persons who called Gersie with even worse name some time ago. The comments were conveniently erased when the FISTF Forum was erased. In Rain the nations voted that Coppenolle's ban should be erased and he could take part in the Congress. So how he is still suspended? And who banned him? Isn't it the job of the disciplinary panel?

Is it possible to be positive when these things happen?

I have to agree with Markus' answers.

**Admin** Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:59 am

To make short: how is it possible to support people who only defend their personal interests instead of the interests of the whole community?

On the italian forum, I read unbelievable things from De Francesco and his friends. How is it possible to read things like "there are more players in Toscany then int he whole Scandinavia so we don't have to learn from Scandinavians"?

Sorry but this is the basic of the problem Italy is taking things with too much arrogance and they are happy to get the support from a few nations (or a few people from a few nations).

We can blame Catania for cheating & lying but the other people involved in the "putsch" of Frankfurt are to blame, too.

De Francesco became sports director, took decisions, made the changes during the season (but didn't care about running a calendar, publishing results,... and all the ings a sports director should do) and then retires. How is it possible?

Garnier: where is Garnier? Can anyone explain why the HQ of FISTF was moved to his place? Is it just a way to get money from public authorities?

Sorry but when I used the word "mafia", I did not find something string enough to say how the Board is.

We had a Board who was working well, that you like it or not. It was not perfect but all his duties were fulfilled. Now we have a Board of liars and cheaters supported by other liars and cheaters.

How can the table football community accept words such as "if there are elections, Italy will leave FISTF"? (FISTF can live without Italy, Italy can not live without FISTF).

Conclusion: don't blame people who are interested in the future of the game (Kechris, Von K, Thossa, me...) for not always being "positive".

**Admin** Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:02 am

I'm also tired to read about "wrong problems" such as "Monaco and India are FISTF members and it's not possible".

What is a pity: to have Monaco as member or FISTF or to have as president of FISTF someone that noone hadever seen before he got elected?

I have my own idea... Razz

kechris Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Vincent you are lucky.
Because after you lost your president chair you can see the table soccer by other view the REAL VIEW.
I think that Catania's company show to all of us and especially to you, the wrong way which follow the captains when stop thinking like simple players.
You are lucky because now you feel an wrongfull ban and how wrong is the situation when the BoD decides with closed ears.
I see the last months an other Vincent. I think now your eyes and your mind are more open than the past.

You are lucky because you lost your chair by a very bad and unfair BoD and now you are more sapient.
In Greece we used a phrase : everything wrong is for good!

kechris Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:55 am

Oh sorry i forgot something.

GRAND PRIX IN ATHENS IN 3 DAYS !!!

KOUTROUMANOS IS THE COMPETITION MANAGER OF GREEK GRAND PRIX IN 23-24 OCTOBER.
BUT I CANN'T SEE THIS TOURNAMENT IN FISTF CALENDAR IN OCTOBER. I SEE THE GREEK G.P. IN 11-12 JUNE 2011 !

CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL. FISTF BoD, Greek BoD, council, voters, chickens etc.

And of course OLYMPIA is not in list of PATFAP clubs. They delete us. Your proof:
http://www.pseaep.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=5&lang=GR

Also you can see the greek calendar with the greek G.P. on the top of list
http://www.pseaep.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16%3Acalendar&catid=10%3Acalendar&Itemid=5&lang=GR

And the last. We cann't play in Greek G.P. because we are not members!!! But for greek law we are members and for these reasons we asked by courts before two years solution for the fake elections.

Goodnight and Goodluck

Heinz Eder Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:28 am

That's the reason why the council shouldn't spend time and start to work on statutes Statutes which can solve that part finally. We need strong statutes telling us exactly what to do in case of elections. The actual statutes allows something like we could see with the application of the candidates.
If the majority of countries represented in the council likes that, they should write down it clearly, if the majority doesn't want that, they need to write down what they clearly want.
Kostas you want clear rules when you play tablesoccer, we also need clear rules in our federation and organization.
That should be the main work of the council in my opinion.

kechris wrote:
Open your eyes. As soon as possible we MUST do elections. FREE ELECTIONS without special rules which help few persons.

Thossa Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:49 pm

And I am still waiting on more transparencey of the work of FISTF CoN. Is nobody able to make the spokesman of this group of persons.

von K. Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:52 pm

Admin wrote:
Can anyone explain why the HQ of FISTF was moved to his place? Is it just a way to get money from public authorities?

Can anyone tell me why FISTF needs HQ at all? It costs money that we don't have, and to my mind it's completely useless.

For example the finnish skiing federation (a big federation in Finland with cross country, alpine and ski jumping) is thinking if it's worth having HQ at all. And FISTF needs it in a small village in France?

von K. Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:13 pm

For the subjects below (Kechris quotes) it would be nice to hear how they can be viewed positively and how a solution can be found without critiscism (which isn't negativity, in fact).

Piero or anyone else is welcome to express those solutions. I'm an idealist like Piero, but I've seen a lot in this world (although I hear from one person that I'm too young and inexperienced), and I know that sometimes positive idealism is the same as letting the negative things continue.

I was very positive going into Rain and wanted to help build something better. That's why I was very positive about the Council which was a solution without wrecking everything. But seeing some people's actions and words after Rain, I'm not positive anymore.

kechris wrote:GRAND PRIX IN ATHENS IN 3 DAYS !!!

KOUTROUMANOS IS THE COMPETITION MANAGER OF GREEK GRAND PRIX IN 23-24 OCTOBER.
BUT I CANN'T SEE THIS TOURNAMENT IN FISTF CALENDAR IN OCTOBER. I SEE THE GREEK G.P. IN 11-12 JUNE 2011 !

The greek tournaments of this autumn have to be viewed again to see, if they were done according to rules. I don't see it possible that most foreign (some greeks, too) players don't know about a tournament well beforehand and can't participate. This distorts the ranking.

kechris wrote:And the last. We cann't play in Greek G.P. because we are not members!!! But for greek law we are members and for these reasons we asked by courts before two years solution for the fake elections.

What will FISTF do if the second verdict favours Olympia and the banned players?

It's clear that they can apply for compensation at least for lost points in the ranking, and lost opportunity to play in the CL or EL. What then?

Heinz Eder Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:26 pm

We don't need.
We don't need anything we don't have any benefit from.
I can't see the benefit of having a HQ.

von K. wrote:
Admin wrote:
Can anyone explain why the HQ of FISTF was moved to his place? Is it just a way to get money from public authorities?

Can anyone tell me why FISTF needs HQ at all? It costs money that we don't have, and to my mind it's completely useless.

For example the finnish skiing federation (a big federation in Finland with cross country, alpine and ski jumping) is thinking if it's worth having HQ at all. And FISTF needs it in a small village in France?

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